Re: Embeddable editor C source?

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Look for ed, in the gnu sources.  That is precisely what it was
designed to do.  The book "Software Tools" will lead you to a
simpler version.  If "Ansi Terminal" means handling Ansi escape
sequences then you can go much further, but code is more complex.
ed is a line editor.  vi usually uses it as the underlying editor.

--
Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Embeddable editor C source?
[...]

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Well, let's say vi *used to* be just a full-screen front-end to an
underlying line editor --- thus its name: "Visual Interface".  But
AFAIK, that line editor was 'ex', the extended version of 'ed'.

But nowadays, for the majority of people having a vi installed, that
will actually be VIM or one of the other modern versions, which have
their 'ex' built right into it.  I.e. the common situation is:

lrwxrwxrwx   /bin/ex -> vi
lrwxrwxrwx   /bin/rvi -> vi
-rwxr-xr-x   /bin/vi

--
Hans-Bernhard Broeker ( snipped-for-privacy@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

Re: Embeddable editor C source?
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Woudn't using GNU GPL source code in the project require
distribution all the code for the device?

Re: Embeddable editor C source?
Quoted text here. Click to load it

If it is a separate program, why?  If it is embedded in something
else, yes, but that was not the OPs question.

--
Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Embeddable editor C source?
Quoted text here. Click to load it



Well, this _is_ c.a.embedded, and the subject is an embeddable editor
(for an 8-bit platform, too, which probably makes use of GNU ed a
non-option, anyway).

While I'm certainly not a lawyer, I don't think one can have separate
programs inside an actual embedded system so as to wiggle out of the
so-called "GPL virus" clause that way.

--
Hans-Bernhard Broeker ( snipped-for-privacy@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

Re: Embeddable editor C source?

Quoted text here. Click to load it

There are several vi clones, I assume that there are some BSD licensed
as well... googling...

http://ex-vi.berlios.de /

Quoted text here. Click to load it

If you have an OS it won't be difficult - but that might create to much
demand on the HW.

/RogerL

--
Roger Larsson
Skellefteċ
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Embeddable editor C source?
On 19 Feb 2004 18:19:07 GMT, Hans-Bernhard Broeker

Quoted text here. Click to load it

I think an argument could probably be made for a separate executable
running under a heavyweight RTOS (VxWorks, QNX, etc.).  In any case
I'm sure the FSF would find some way to disagree.

George (also not a lawyer)

==============================================
Send real email to GNEUNER2 at COMCAST dot NET

Re: Embeddable editor C source?
Quoted text here. Click to load it


I don't think so.  You, OTOH, seem to be jumping to conclusions quite
quickly.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

To pick a nit: definitely not for "all programs containing GPL source
code".  Only for those I distributed binaries of.

But that's not the issue I was talking about anyway.

That issue is whether, on a typical embedded system (no OS, no user
interface to run individual programs from), you ever _have_ more than
one PROGRAM on the entire thing, in legalese terms.  It's essentially
the old question 'what does "linking" really mean?', asked in a rather
different set of circumstances than usual.

It's the question of whether including a copy of what would usually be
built as a separate program, run by an OS, into the rather monolithic
piece of software running on an embedded device like this will invoke
the "you have to provide source to _all_ of it" clause.  To avoid
that, you would have to provide a means for the user to replace that
"program" by an updated version, at any time, without any need for
assistance by you.  On a small embedded system like the one discussed
in this thread, that's hardly ever going to be feasible.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Those are pretty untypical for the class of embedded systems,
actually.  This may be changing with time, but in the case we're
discussing, using something as big as Linux would be a non-option
anyway --- GNU "ed" alone could easily be larger than that system's
entire code memory!

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Please don't go assuming things about my understanding of the GPL if
you don't grasp the context I was mentioning it in.

--
Hans-Bernhard Broeker ( snipped-for-privacy@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

Re: Embeddable editor C source?
On 20 Feb 2004 14:42:43 GMT, Hans-Bernhard Broeker
[snip...snip...]
Quoted text here. Click to load it

The GNU family has some libraries that are released under the LGPL (was
"Library GPL", now translates as "Lesser GPL").

http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html goes into some detail regarding
the licensing that applies to works that link to LGPL libraries, much
more so than I'd feel comfortable summarizing here.

I'm sure H-B B and many of the previous posters are aware of the LGPL
and its terms but I thought this might be a good spot mention it in this
thread, since some folks might not know of it.

--
Rich Webb   Norfolk, VA

Re: Embeddable editor C source?
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 23:15:29 GMT, Rich Webb

Quoted text here. Click to load it

The editor code in question are not among them.

George
==============================================
Send real email to GNEUNER2 at COMCAST dot NET

Re: Embeddable editor C source?
:
: While I'm certainly not a lawyer, I don't think one can have separate
: programs inside an actual embedded system so as to wiggle out of the
: so-called "GPL virus" clause that way.
:

You are incorrect.  The GPL refers to PROGRAMS.  As long as you're
distributing a binary, whether it's on a CD or inside a flash filesystem,
you are required to release source to all programs containing GPL source
code.

Other programs, which do not contain GPL source, can be licensed however
you want.

If you don't believe me, look at the myriad of devices using linux.  
Linksys routers, Tivos, Satellite boxes, etc. I can guarantee that they do
not release all of their internal source code.  However, they do release
source code for GPL applications that they use (modified or not), as this
is required.

Please don't go assuming things about the GPL if you don't understand it.  
I would recommend that you visit the FSF website (www.fsf.org).

Also, if you WANT to use GPL source, but need to put it inside your own
program, you can always email the developer and ask for permission. Most
of the time they don't care.

ttyl,

--buddy
[ed: superceded post to correct my grammar. apologies]
 --
Remove '.spaminator' and '.invalid' from email address
when replying.


Re: Embeddable editor C source?
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Your 80x86 is only capable of executing one instruction stream at
a time, although this is somewhat hidden under caches, look
aheads, speculative execution, etc.  Linux is a program running on
that system that makes it appear to be able to execute multiple
programs simultaneously, or in sequence, or whatever.

If your little embedded application can be told to execute various
discrete packages, it is also an OS.  It may not be as capable as
Linux.  If it uses GPL code to do that, you need to publish all
its code.  If it just loads a module and provides some services
for it, the fact that that module uses GPL code only requires that
that modules code be published.

At least as I see it.  IANAL.

--
Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Embeddable editor C source?
On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:41:46 +0000 (UTC),

Quoted text here. Click to load it

The point you are missing is that a lot of embedded systems are
delivered as a single executable ... even systems which are based on a
RTOS can be a single executable with the OS kernel embedded within.
And don't forget that many small systems have no file system to store
a separate "program".

George
==============================================
Send real email to GNEUNER2 at COMCAST dot NET

Re: Embeddable editor C source?
:> Wolfgang Denk wrote:
:> >
:> > >Does anyone know of C source code for embedding
:> > >a simple editor that communicates via serial port with
:> > >an ANSI terminal? I'm currently writing something
:> >
:> > BusyBox includes a pretty good vi clone.
:>
:> Look for ed, in the gnu sources.  That is precisely what it was
:> designed to do.
:
: Woudn't using GNU GPL source code in the project require
: distribution all the code for the device?

Using GPL source requires that you give source for the program which uses
GPL code.

You are not prohibited from using GPL programs with non-GPL programs.  As
long as the source code for the GPL program is separate.

Tivo, for example, releases a lot of GPL source code, but the programs
they developed themselves are not GPL, and this is prefectly acceptable.

For an interesting spin on busybox, see the busybox hall of shame:
http://www.busybox.net/shame.html

--buddy

--
Remove '.spaminator' and '.invalid' from email address
when replying.


Re: Embeddable editor C source?

Quoted text here. Click to load it
Thanks, hadn't thought of looking in "Software Tools" event though
the book is right on the bookshelf in front of me. I did look now and
got some ideas but they correctly warn that their editor is very large,
more than 900 lines of code! Not much on on my PC but more than
I wanted to spend on my 8051.

Anyway, I'm continuing with my homegrown editor for now...

Andrew



Re: Embeddable editor C source?
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I think you will find a large portion of that is regular
expression processing, and somehow I doubt you really need that.

--
Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Embeddable editor C source?
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Anthony C Howe wrote a tiny editor for the International
obfuscated C code contest. The non-obfuscated version - including
comments and blank lines - is less than 300 lines of C source.

It includes commands to move the cursor around, insertion and
deletion, and save-file and quit.

It uses Curses for terminal I/O.  For a project I had a while
back, I found it pretty easy to replace the curses interface with
a simple ansi terminal interface, change the vi-like interface to
be more like what I prefer, plus, add a few new commands.

He (Anthony C Howe) has a home page, with a software section that
includes the non-obfuscated version of the editor.  I don't
remember the URL, but it should be easy enough to find.

Anyway, it worked for me, perhaps it will for you too.

Site Timeline