Quotable source for numbers of embedded vs. desktop CPUs?

Hi all,

could someone point me to a quotable source/book on the numbers of embedded vs. desktop CPUs out there. I'm looking for a statement along the lines of "90% of all processors worldwide are used in consumer electronics and embedded control systems".

I'm also looking (for my thesis) for current, academic books on software design considerations on (small) embedded systems - drivers, OS development, efficient software, etc. Any recommendations?

thanks, Andreas

Reply to
Andreas Koch
Loading thread data ...

Which means what, exactly ?

What would you call a Microcontroller embedded in a Desktop consumer system ? - each PC has many embedded microcontollers, at least one per peripheral, so you could get 5-10 uC per Desktop CPU, even before you go off the desktop, and into your Kitchen, or Car.

If you want the numbers of Microcontrollers, then look at the bragging pages of a semi Mfgr, and extrapolate. eg suppose Microchip claim to ship appx 1B pcs/yr of 8 bit uC, and they also claim to have 20pc by volume of that Market, that makes the market total 5B devices.

Company annual reports will often break down the sales by end market, so you can extract industrial / medical / Telecom / Consumer /Automotive etc from that.

Look at Intel and AMD for PC sector Microprocessor numbers.

-jg

Reply to
Jim Granville

In article , Andreas Koch writes

All the figures I have seen are in reports that cost [a lot of] money and therefore are not freely available. Though I wouldn't disagree with your figures (which is of little help for a reference in a report :-)

However if you look at the semiconductor manufacturers and see what their figures add up to it will give you some idea. Not forgetting the odd one or two that are in Asics and FPGA's

The other point is that EVERY PC will have quite a few embedded systems in it each with an MCU other than the main MCU. Do you count those? .

Then you have the problem that many "PC's" ie PC104 and other industrial PC's are used in embedded systems...

Not all x86 parts go into a PC.

Though how you will get accurate numbers I am not sure.

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Chris Hills

Good luck, BUT, based on my household I have taken a very rough count.

Desktops/laptops

3 (2 win, 1 linux)

Embedded

3 Phones

2 Mobile Phone 1 Router 1 UPS 1 Sprinkler Controller 1 Microwave 1 Oven 1 coffee machine 3 TV's 1 DVD/Lifestyle System. 1 VCR 1 Cable TV Reveiver 2 Digital Cameras. 1 IPOD 1 MP3 Player (Creative) 1 printer 1 scanner 1 smart car bat charger 1 Car Computer

This all excludes. Car Stereo, Car clock, car instrumentation, wathces, Cro, Programmers, ICE's, DEv Boards, Computer Monitors....

Point, Embedded outweighs Desktop by a lot. Dont forget, every desktop has a BIOS (embedded) and most likely has another embedded implementation for video, keyboard, mouse.... Get my point?

Reply to
The Real Andy

In article , The Real Andy writes

Each containing 10+ embedded systems

  • 30 from above.

Min 2 MCU each... Main one + the sim.

Multiple MCU's Especially if you include the remote

All Multiple MCU's Especially if you include the remote

Modern cars have 50-150 depending on model.

Lifts, escalators, fire & intruder alarms. Climate control, lighting control, toasters in fact anything with electrical power on (or near :-) it these days.

Far more than most people realise

A bios is not an MCU It is just some code that boots the main MPU

See above.

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Chris Hills

Does this have one?

formatting link

martin

Reply to
martin griffith

I wouldn't argue with the 90% except it may well be low. The number of microprocessors in use today is huge and getting almost meaninlessly larger.

There are no reliable numbers as far as I know available. The best numbers may well be to summarize the informal survey of this thread. This thread is skewed because most respondents probably have more PC's than average and microwave ovens have 3 or 4 microprocessors. Not mentioned is microprocessors in sneakers and greeting cards.

w..

Andreas Koch wrote:

Reply to
Walter Banks

"Of the 11 billion CPUs sold in 1997, only a few tens of millions went into PCs and workstations, representing approximately zero percent of the market." --Jack Ganssle

Regards,

-=Dave

Reply to
Dave Hansen

Remember that it makes a difference whether the market share is measured in sales dollars or units. The price of the average embedded CPU is probably 25X-50X smaller than the cost of the "main" CPU in a desktop system. That changes the numbers a little.

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow! Should I get locked
                                  at               in the PRINCICAL'S
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Grant Edwards

I would guess that the price of the average embedded processor is around $0.10. The average price for an embedded processor is likely in the $0.30 to $0.50 range.

The number of single function processors being designed in now is huge.

w..

Reply to
Walter Banks

Thanks Chris. My results where based on a quick walk around the house and a quick mental count! I did initially think about the remote, then promptly forgot.

I had not even considered industry, nor had I any idea you would get

50 to 150 embedded controllers in a modern car. I guess if you think about dash, ABS, airbag, traction control... etc it all adds up.
Reply to
The Real Andy

In article , The Real Andy writes

There are often 3 or 4 separate networks in a modern car! Over 2 million lines of C code in a car "radio"

The desktop and PC computing is probably the smallest field of SW engineering... Possibly second smallest after mainframes.

This is a gut feeling. As pointed out ALL PC's contain several embedded systems (ie every peripheral card, mouse, keyboard, monitor, webcam etc) Every router, switch and hub.

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Chris Hills

2 million, that seems a trifle excessive. I presume it covers a little more than the radio?

Robert

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Reply to
Robert Adsett

Underestimation. Three is a bare minimum. Actually about 10 different networks in the upper class cars.

Exaggeration. The very fancy radio is at the order of 100k lines of C++.

The PC field is clearly the biggest and it is pulling forward all other areas of SW engineering.

How often do you buy the software for the keyboard?

Vladimir Vassilevsky

DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant

formatting link

Reply to
Vladimir Vassilevsky

Now I understand why my car radio hangs sometimes..... sheesh....

Meindert

Reply to
Meindert Sprang

Quite likely.

Not according to the people I know doing one!

CRAP! Given that a PC contains many embedded sub systems it can not be the largest. Everyone who owns a PC has many more embedded systems in their lives.

Written some once... You buy keyboard Sw every time you buy a keyboard..... how often do you buy a PC BIOS? (Or OS in many cases :-)

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Chris Hills

Ask me.

Get real. You have about 100 times more of the software running on your PC then all of the itty-bitty embedded systems in your life.

Not quite. You are buying the same i8048 code for VT100 which was developed somewhat 25 years ago, maybe with some minor modifications. There was only one major change when they switched to USB.

how often do you buy a PC BIOS? (Or OS in many cases :-)

Bios was reflashed several times; the OS was upgraded numerous times as well as all of the other software.

Vladimir Vassilevsky

DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant

formatting link

Reply to
Vladimir Vassilevsky

No wonder. In our days, everything from a cellphone to a door bell tends to hang up. You need to ask a dealer to get your radio firmware upgraded. New software - new bugs, that makes the life interesting.

The stupidity of the situation is that 80% of the programmer effort is spent on development of the fancy features which nobody uses. However those features are supposed to increase the sellability of the product.

Vladimir Vassilevsky

DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant

formatting link

Reply to
Vladimir Vassilevsky

that's what C++ can do for you.

About 10 years ago I worked on a design for a small device that included an FM radio. We were looking to use I2C tuners and volume control. The processor was a PIC with something like 50 bytes of RAM, mostly to bit-bang the I2C protocol and fade the volume while tuning.

I suppose the car radio nees to decode satellite radio and exchange X. certificates. Probably includes an XML schema or two. Maybe it includes automatic software updates. Why not throw in a virus scanner, everything needs that too.

--
	mac the naïf
Reply to
Alex Colvin

There may well be lots more lines of code in the global collective of PC's than the global collective of embedded systems but I, for one, could believe that there are orders of magnitude more embedded systems out there than there are desk-top PC's. Given the comparative pricing of all of these systems (and the processors used in them) you could see a wide variation of league tables that could be used. The viewpoint depends on which number sets you are comparing the magnitude of (unit of measure should be considered carefully by the OP).

I suppose lines of original code could be yet another measure. So, how meaningful any of the league tables/population statistics are for the OP's purposes only he can decide.

--
********************************************************************
Paul E. Bennett ....................
 Click to see the full signature
Reply to
Paul E. Bennett

ElectronDepot website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.