Pinout data grumble

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Why don't more manufacturers provide their device pinouts (pin numbers
and names) as a spreadsheet or text file? It would make part creation
for PCB design packages *much* easier. Sometimes the data can be
extracted from the PDF file without too much trouble and then imported
directly into the PCB software, but in many cases this can't be done
because of the way the document is formatted. It's a real pain typing in
stuff like RA5/AN4/LVDIN over and over again for devices with 80 pins or
more.

Xilinx provides this info. for many of their newer chips; if enough
people complained to the other purveyors of silicon they might get the
message.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: snipped-for-privacy@dsl.pipex.com
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Re: Pinout data grumble

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I've long had a similar complaint, except on the software side.  The first
thing I (and most programmers) do when writing a driver is write a header
file that symbolically defines devices' register addresses and mask and
such.  Imagine the resulting number of man-hours in duplicated effort.
Wouldn't it be a competative advantage for the chip manufacturers to
provide this information?

--
========================================================================
          Michael Kesti            |  "And like, one and one don't make
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Re: Pinout data grumble
most chip makers do

Re: Pinout data grumble

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Can you provide any examples, especially of such information that is
freely downloadable via the Internet?

--
========================================================================
          Michael Kesti            |  "And like, one and one don't make
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Re: Pinout data grumble
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Why?  Are you two dim to click on "support" yourself?  I
downloaded headers and example source for all the projects I've
done in the past 5-7 years.  The last few were Samsung
ARM-based uCs and the Hitachi H8 series.  Here's the link for
the Hitachi part I'm using now:

http://www.renesas.com/eng/products/mpumcu/tool/crosstool/iodef/300.html

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  It don't mean a
                                  at               THING if you ain't got
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Re: Pinout data grumble


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This stipulation I came across when downloading the code to have a look
at it rather amused me:

"This is notification that you are not allowed to perform any of the
following:

(1) Sell or retransfer these information to any party intending to
disturb international peace and security.

(2) Use these information yourself for activities disturbing
international peace and security.

(3) Allow any other party to use these information for activities
disturbing international peace and security."

I hardly think that would deter anyone like terrorists from using
Renesas code.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: snipped-for-privacy@dsl.pipex.com
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Re: Pinout data grumble

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It's not supposed to.  I imagine it's there so that Renesas can disclaim any
responsibility if some bad guy *does* use the data in a bad way.

Kelly



Re: Pinout data grumble
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Maybe they should imbed the warnings into the flash on all of their
chips just to make sure the bad guys are adequately informed.  Of course
this is something the lawyers thought up.  The point is that it is
*worthless*.  Just because you provide support for your chips does not
make you liable for the illegal use of the information by others.  Even
if you were somehow liable, posting a lame notice on a website will not
relieve your liability.

Re: Pinout data grumble
Yeh, it didn't work on flight sim did it?


Re: Pinout data grumble
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What didn't work?

--
Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
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Re: Pinout data grumble
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A very down-the-rabbit-hole approach, though. "We release this product
only to people who promise not to do bad things(*). If you do a bad
thing, we retroactively withdraw our offer of this code to you, and
therefore legally you never obtained it from us in the first place".

* The text originally quoted doesn't really specify do bad things WITH
THE RENESAS CODE. It basically says you're not allowed to download the
code if you're evil.

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[snip]


Here's similar story about Dell:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/28/34781.html

   Vadim

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Is there a reason that you feel the need to be rude?  Clearly this guy
has not seen any such info and asked a ligit question.  If you don't
like the question, then don't answer.

Re: Pinout data grumble
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How are we supposed to know what chip he wants info for?  He
was already told that most vendors supply header files.  If he
wants one for a specific chip he's going to have to either go
looking for it or specify which one he wants.  Instead of
either of those, he simply challenges the answer he's already
been given.  Sorry if I was rude, but I thought his demand for
proof of the answer given was rude.

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  I know things about
                                  at               TROY DONAHUE that can't
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Re: Pinout data grumble
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Did your doctor tell you to cut down on the caffeine?  I'm not trying to
tick you off, but I think you are overreacting a bit.  His request was
just to show him where you saw what you saw, it was not a chalenge or in
any way an indication that he doubted you.  He just wanted to see for
himself.  

I remember once when I was on vacation in Paris.  I was in a little shop
that had handmade pens for sale.  I was told that the refills were the
same as some other pen that I already had.  Not that I doubted anyone,
but I wanted to see for myself and unscrewed the pen.  When I exclaimed,
"Well it *is* the same", I was told that I was insulting her by
looking.  I think she actually made some comment about rude Americans.
I didn't intend any rudeness, I just wanted to satisfy my curiosity.  

In the same way, Michael did not mean any rudeness as far as I can
tell.  He simply asked so he could see an example himself.

Re: Pinout data grumble
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Besides just "wanting to see", an example can give someone information
on how to go about finding the information for himself.  In this case,
using an example, he could probably determine how to find the info from
the vendor's web site, which would likely be helpful for finding similar
information for other parts.

Thad

Re: Pinout data grumble

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   I've used the AVR Studio (assembler/simulator/debugger) that's
freely downloadable from atmel.com. It comes with include files - the
one I've used is for the AT90S1200, but like most every such file I've
received for any microprocessor, I've modified it and added to it.

   BTW, such files come with the assembler/compiler rather than just
"from the manufacturer" as, especially with assemblers, the file needs
to be written to fit the assembler's syntax and definitions. Thus it
wouldn't be quite as useful for a manufacturer to have a 'generic'
header file.
   So, Michael, your complaint (or my complaint that such files are
inadequate) is with the tool suppliers rather than the manufacturers.

   The original 1200 header file is 3k bytes, mine is 6k bytes. Here
are some snippets (FWIW, I see no copyright statement in the header
file):

   The origial 1200def.inc:

;***** I/O Register Definitions

...

.equ    MCUCR    =$35
.equ    TCCR0    =$33
.equ    TCNT0    =$32

...

;***** Bit Definitions

...

.equ    CS02    =2
.equ    CS01    =1
.equ    CS00    =0

.equ    WDE    =3
.equ    WDP2    =2
.equ    WDP1    =1
.equ    WDP0    =0

.equ    EEWE    =1
.equ    EERE    =0

...

   Here are three registers defined, and then some bits defined, I
know the four definitions starting with WDE are for the TCCRO
register, and EEWE and EERE I happen to remember are control bits for
the EE memory control register (not listed in the three register
definitions I quoted). So this thing has register definitions and bit
definitions, but you can't be sure which is for which without going to
the AT90S1200 user manual/PDF file.


   A snippet of my header file:

.equ    D0    =1
.equ    D1    =2
.equ    D2    =4
.equ    D3    =8

.equ    D4    16%
.equ    D5    32%
.equ    D6    64%
.equ    D7    12%8

.equ    B_D0    =0
.equ    B_D1    =1
.equ    B_D2    =2
.equ    B_D3    =3

.equ    B_D4    =4
.equ    B_D5    =5
.equ    B_D6    =6
.equ    B_D7    =7

...

;***** I/O Register Definitions

.equ    MCUCR    =$35
.equ    MCUCR_SE    D5%    ;Sleep Enable
.equ    MCUCR_SM    D4%    ;Sleep Mode
.equ    MCUCR_LEVEL_LOW    =0        ;INT0 level low generates int
.equ    MCUCR_FALL_EDGE    D2%        ;falling edge of INT0
generates int
.equ    MCUCR_RISE_EDGE    D2%+D1    ;falling edge of INT0 generates int

;***** Timer/Counter

.equ    TCCR0        =$33
.equ    TCCR0_STOP    =0
.equ    TCCR0_CK    D0%
.equ    TCCR0_CK8    D1%    ;clock / 8
.equ    TCCR0_CK64    D1%+D0
.equ    TCCR0_CK256    D2%
.equ    TCCR0_CK1024    D2%+D0
.equ    TCCR0_EXT_RISE    D2%+D1
.equ    TCCR0_EXT_FALL    D2%+D1+D0

.equ    TCNT0    =$32        ;the actual timer/counter register

;***** Watchdog Timer

.equ    WDTCR    =$21        ;Watchdog Timer Control Register
.equ    WDTCR_WDE    D3%    ;Watchdog Enable

.equ    WDTCR_16k    =0    ;Watchdog timer prescale select
                ;16k cycles15%mS at 5V, 47mS at 3V
.equ    WDTCR_32k    D0%
.equ    WDTCR_64k    D1%
.equ    WDTCR_128k    D1%+D0
.equ    WDTCR_256k    D2%
.equ    WDTCR_512k    D2%+D0
.equ    WDTCR_1024k    D2%+D1
.equ    WDTCR_2048k    D2%+D1+D0

   I've put the bit definitions (as bitmaps for load-immediate and
logical instructions, but in some places also as bit numbers for bit
set and clear instructions) right under the register definitions, and
the bit definitions start with the register mnemonic. I also use
'macro' definitions so they reflect the FUNCTION done (such as setting
a prescale divider to a certain value), not just the name of some bit
position.
   This takes going through the processor/controller manual and system
bitmap at the start, but it keeps me from having to go back to the
manual to answer silly questions.

   So back to the original complaint:

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   So at least one manufacturer provides this, and I recall similar
files from several others that do give register and bit definitions,
but I've found the quality and usefulness of such files to be
questionable. Such a file (and the manual) does make a good starting
point.

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

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I fully agree. One solution I have found is to use a OCR program to
get the text from the PDF document. Most OCR programs can read a PDF
file directly. It is converted to a image and then OCRd as any scanned
image. Then at least you get the data as formatted on the page
regardless of the internal PDF format. I have found FineReader OCR the
best OCR package on Windows.

Regards
   Anton Erasmus



Re: Pinout data grumble
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I am happy when vendors make the PDF files text copyable.  Some have it
locked out so you can't even select text in the document which I often
do for searches.  Otherwise I find that I can often copy text to a file
with the clipboard.  I often do this for tables (when they let me).

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