Why don't more manufacturers provide their device pinouts (pin numbers and names) as a spreadsheet or text file? It would make part creation for PCB design packages *much* easier. Sometimes the data can be extracted from the PDF file without too much trouble and then imported directly into the PCB software, but in many cases this can't be done because of the way the document is formatted. It's a real pain typing in stuff like RA5/AN4/LVDIN over and over again for devices with 80 pins or more.
Xilinx provides this info. for many of their newer chips; if enough people complained to the other purveyors of silicon they might get the message.
Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html
I've long had a similar complaint, except on the software side. The first thing I (and most programmers) do when writing a driver is write a header file that symbolically defines devices' register addresses and mask and such. Imagine the resulting number of man-hours in duplicated effort. Wouldn't it be a competative advantage for the chip manufacturers to provide this information?
--
========================================================================
Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make
| two, one and one make one."
mkesti@gv.net | - The Who, Bargain
Can you provide any examples, especially of such information that is freely downloadable via the Internet?
-- ======================================================================== Michael Kesti | "And like, one and one don't make | two, one and one make one." snipped-for-privacy@gv.net | - The Who, Bargain
Why? Are you two dim to click on "support" yourself? I downloaded headers and example source for all the projects I've done in the past 5-7 years. The last few were Samsung ARM-based uCs and the Hitachi H8 series. Here's the link for the Hitachi part I'm using now:
formatting link
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! It don't mean a
at THING if you ain't got
visi.com that SWING!!
This stipulation I came across when downloading the code to have a look at it rather amused me:
"This is notification that you are not allowed to perform any of the following:
(1) Sell or retransfer these information to any party intending to disturb international peace and security.
(2) Use these information yourself for activities disturbing international peace and security.
(3) Allow any other party to use these information for activities disturbing international peace and security."
I hardly think that would deter anyone like terrorists from using Renesas code.
Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: aqzf13@dsl.pipex.com
My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html
Maybe they should imbed the warnings into the flash on all of their chips just to make sure the bad guys are adequately informed. Of course this is something the lawyers thought up. The point is that it is
*worthless*. Just because you provide support for your chips does not make you liable for the illegal use of the information by others. Even if you were somehow liable, posting a lame notice on a website will not relieve your liability.
Is there a reason that you feel the need to be rude? Clearly this guy has not seen any such info and asked a ligit question. If you don't like the question, then don't answer.
How are we supposed to know what chip he wants info for? He was already told that most vendors supply header files. If he wants one for a specific chip he's going to have to either go looking for it or specify which one he wants. Instead of either of those, he simply challenges the answer he's already been given. Sorry if I was rude, but I thought his demand for proof of the answer given was rude.
--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I know things about
at TROY DONAHUE that can't
visi.com even be PRINTED!!
-- Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net) Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems. USE worldnet address!
I've used the AVR Studio (assembler/simulator/debugger) that's freely downloadable from atmel.com. It comes with include files - the one I've used is for the AT90S1200, but like most every such file I've received for any microprocessor, I've modified it and added to it.
BTW, such files come with the assembler/compiler rather than just "from the manufacturer" as, especially with assemblers, the file needs to be written to fit the assembler's syntax and definitions. Thus it wouldn't be quite as useful for a manufacturer to have a 'generic' header file. So, Michael, your complaint (or my complaint that such files are inadequate) is with the tool suppliers rather than the manufacturers.
The original 1200 header file is 3k bytes, mine is 6k bytes. Here are some snippets (FWIW, I see no copyright statement in the header file):
Here are three registers defined, and then some bits defined, I know the four definitions starting with WDE are for the TCCRO register, and EEWE and EERE I happen to remember are control bits for the EE memory control register (not listed in the three register definitions I quoted). So this thing has register definitions and bit definitions, but you can't be sure which is for which without going to the AT90S1200 user manual/PDF file.
I've put the bit definitions (as bitmaps for load-immediate and logical instructions, but in some places also as bit numbers for bit set and clear instructions) right under the register definitions, and the bit definitions start with the register mnemonic. I also use 'macro' definitions so they reflect the FUNCTION done (such as setting a prescale divider to a certain value), not just the name of some bit position. This takes going through the processor/controller manual and system bitmap at the start, but it keeps me from having to go back to the manual to answer silly questions.
So back to the original complaint:
So at least one manufacturer provides this, and I recall similar files from several others that do give register and bit definitions, but I've found the quality and usefulness of such files to be questionable. Such a file (and the manual) does make a good starting point.
A very down-the-rabbit-hole approach, though. "We release this product only to people who promise not to do bad things(*). If you do a bad thing, we retroactively withdraw our offer of this code to you, and therefore legally you never obtained it from us in the first place".
The text originally quoted doesn't really specify do bad things WITH THE RENESAS CODE. It basically says you're not allowed to download the code if you're evil.
I fully agree. One solution I have found is to use a OCR program to get the text from the PDF document. Most OCR programs can read a PDF file directly. It is converted to a image and then OCRd as any scanned image. Then at least you get the data as formatted on the page regardless of the internal PDF format. I have found FineReader OCR the best OCR package on Windows.
Did your doctor tell you to cut down on the caffeine? I'm not trying to tick you off, but I think you are overreacting a bit. His request was just to show him where you saw what you saw, it was not a chalenge or in any way an indication that he doubted you. He just wanted to see for himself.
I remember once when I was on vacation in Paris. I was in a little shop that had handmade pens for sale. I was told that the refills were the same as some other pen that I already had. Not that I doubted anyone, but I wanted to see for myself and unscrewed the pen. When I exclaimed, "Well it *is* the same", I was told that I was insulting her by looking. I think she actually made some comment about rude Americans. I didn't intend any rudeness, I just wanted to satisfy my curiosity.
In the same way, Michael did not mean any rudeness as far as I can tell. He simply asked so he could see an example himself.
I am happy when vendors make the PDF files text copyable. Some have it locked out so you can't even select text in the document which I often do for searches. Otherwise I find that I can often copy text to a file with the clipboard. I often do this for tables (when they let me).
Besides just "wanting to see", an example can give someone information on how to go about finding the information for himself. In this case, using an example, he could probably determine how to find the info from the vendor's web site, which would likely be helpful for finding similar information for other parts.
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