PIC + ubuntu newbie problem

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Dig deeper. Are the drivers loaded? Are the programs running? Are you awake in class?

I dimly recall that you need to make yourself a member of the group that has access to USB -- Google is your friend.

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Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

In my experience PIC is very Unix-hostile (besides which, the CPU architectures are very ugly). I find Atmel AVR to be a lot more Unix-friendly. TI MSP430 isn't quite as Unix-friendly as the AVR, but it's still way better than PIC (and the MSP430 architecture is _so_ much nicer than the PIC).

If you really have no choice and have to suffer the indignity of using a PIC, then you might try installing Windows under Qemu or one of the other virtual machines and setting up USB pass-through.

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Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! Hello, GORRY-O!!
                                  at               I'm a GENIUS from HARVARD!!
                              gmail.com

By using Windows7, deeps**t? Keep using Ubuntu, expect grea tresults.

By using Windows7, deeps**t? Keep using Ubuntu, expect grea tresults.

Do yourself a favor:

1) Use Windows.

2) Download/use Microchip MPLAB IDE.

3) Download/use Microchip "C18" C-compiler. It's free for 2 months w/optimizations, after 2 months optimizations get disabled but you can still compile code, you don't need optimizations as you seem to be a novice anyway. If you want optimizations to never get disabled, ask me but my & everyone's email here is hidden for security and I DON"T read this Group too often, so I won't know when/if you ask.

4) Stop the teenage/geek/nerd-obsession with Ubuntu. It's a crap OS for 3d world or people who think "Capitalism is evil".

Listen to me: YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. YOU PAY NOTHING FOR UBUNUTU (IT'S LINUX - SO IT'S FREE). SO WHAT DO YOU EXPEC TTO GET FROM IT? Burning DVD'd, email & word processor? If that's all you need, then Ubuntu is OK. If you want WORK to get done (business), the you will forget Ubuntu.

FYI: Ubuntu flavor of Linux is sponsored by Mike Shuttleworth, he makes mony on supporting Ubuntu so if you enjoy the idea of "free software" not only is someone making money off you fools, but it's also killing capitalism. If nobody gets paid for their work creating Software, nobody takes responsibility for its quality, progress or creating JOBS.

Everytime you try playing with Ubuntu, you kill a job at Microsoft, which in turn kills a job at fast food joints, car dealers, etc. - where that person who lost his job at Mirosofto stops shopping. It's a cycle.

So please buy software, and maybe you won't have a problem "recognizing PIC" Micorcontroller.

Ohh and one final suggestion:

Stop using PIC16f877.

It is an antique, old, crap Microcontroller. I know you chose it b/c it's been around for a decade+ & ton of software, books, examples were written around it. SO that means you have to be stuck with an archaic Microcontroller? Microchip makes money on people like you b/c it's become extremely cheap to manufacture & there're people still buying this crap. Stop it.

STEP UP to modern Microcontroller. I recommend AT LEAST PIC18F4520, it costs $ if you apply discounts/etc deals at Digikey or Newark or Microchip Direct. Better yet start using PIC24xxxx series as their cost increase over PIC18Fxxxx is now negligible

The old PIC16F877 you're using even has problems with recursion, it has a tiny Stack and creates many problems for modern programmers. This chip is good for toys maybe, not serious design anymore.

Stan Starinski or Mark Licetti, or what ever name you are using this week -

How interesting. You lambaste those who use a freely available, non-windows, operating system as destroying capitalism, then offer to help them steal the use of C18 optimization (if they can get in touch with you). ("If you want optimizations to never get disabled, ask me but my & everyone's email here is hidden for security and I DON"T read this Group too often, so I won't know when/if you ask.")

Your "understanding" of the power of Ubuntu is that "Everytime you try playing with Ubuntu, you kill a job at Microsoft, which in turn kills a job at fast food joints, car dealers, etc. - where that person who lost his job at Mirosofto stops shopping. It's a cycle." I seriously doubt a Microsoft employee loses his or her job every time someone tries "playing with Ubuntu". If this were true, Microsoft would have been defunct a long time ago. The last time I checked, Bill Gates, his employees, and Microsoft stockholders were still hanging in there. Furthermore, your leap to one lost job at MS to one lost job as each of several other businesses shows a complete lack of understanding of economics.

Your opinion of Ubuntu is that "It's a crap OS for 3d world or people who think "Capitalism is evil"." How in the world did you arrive at this conclusion? What can you offer as supporting evidence? Most of the folks I know who "play" with Ubuntu and other variants do so because they want a reliable operating system for important applications. Some simply want to tell their operating system what to do, instead of the other way around, and do it without all the fancy, nearly mindless, GUIs in existance today. Many of those I know live in the U.S., U.K., and Italy (non third-workd countries, yet), use both Windows and Linux for various applications, and all are "capitalists".

Again, you finish by saying, "So please buy software...". How does this square with your "teenage/geek/nerd-obsession with" stealing software, perpetuating the "cycle" you accuse the Ubuntu users of?

Richard Seriani, Sr. (Real name and not a Ubuntu user-yet)

What do you mean by "steal"? I turned Optimizations off b/c MCU here has 8 times more memory than I'll need even if code doubles in size. C18 is usable even after 60 days - if you don't mind losing optimization. I am surprised Microchip wouldn't disable it completely after 60 days - flashmemory is so cheap that it's OK to sacrifice optimization if you don't write monster-sized code or one that needs lightning fast speed.

I wrote ffor ACpower controiller application, my clock is 20MHz, I am perfectly fine w/o optimizing code, code comptactness or speed is nto critical for this application.

IN ADDITION - STUDENTS GET DISCOUNTED PRICING.

========================= Stan Starinski Consulting Engineer (EE+ME, ECAD+MCAD [3D/2D]), R&D + Prototype, Embedded/Firmware ["C" or ASM for Microcontrollers], computers).

What do you mean by "steal"? I turned Optimizations off b/c MCU here has 8 times more memory than I'll need even if code doubles in size. C18 is usable even after 60 days - if you don't mind losing optimization. I am surprised Microchip wouldn't disable it completely after 60 days - flashmemory is so cheap that it's OK to sacrifice optimization if you don't write monster-sized code or one that needs lightning fast speed.

I wrote ffor ACpower controiller application, my clock is 20MHz, I am perfectly fine w/o optimizing code, code comptactness or speed is nto critical for this application.

IN ADDITION - STUDENTS GET DISCOUNTED PRICING.

========================= Stan Starinski Consulting Engineer (EE+ME, ECAD+MCAD [3D/2D]), R&D + Prototype, Embedded/Firmware ["C" or ASM for Microcontrollers], computers).

It's a figure speech. It's not not meant to be factual but comparative. E.g. when Bible says "3" it means a afew, when it says "40" it means "many" - buit it does not mean actually 3 or 40 or 1000.

What my statement convenyed is idea of FREE software for all applications/everything would cause enormous economic damage. Note how this idea is entertained precisely where deeps**its runt their economy into chaos - 3d world, Spain, latin America. Because it's akin to COmmunism -free everything, so whgy work, why innovate? Thomas Jefferson said those who hammer their guns into plows, will plow for someone who didn't.

People must work, then they get paid, then they buy goods.

But Free Software removes one big ingredient from modern ecomony - that is software making. You should pay for someone's hard work. If yoiu don't pay, you're a thief. If you're th eone who works & doesn't get paid - you're a fool with TWO EXCEPTIONS:

a) Exception1: There's war or your country needs help. Then you work for survival, you give software to your country. b) Exception2: You're a charity. You help needy people.

For any other reason - free software is an anti-capitalist destructive idea.

Next I want free healthcare. Free education. Free cars. free housing. Free food.

Why not? let's go. Let's stop working and get on government's back and suck taxes until we run out of money and build COMMUNISM

========================= Stan Starinski Consulting Engineer (EE+ME, ECAD+MCAD [3D/2D]), R&D + Prototype, Embedded/Firmware ["C" or ASM for Microcontrollers], computers).

Please download Ubuntu & use it. You deserve world's best O.S.

Please connect to Microchip PIC!

In message , Richard Seriani writes

Made me think of

Artistically it is a very good poster. A pastiche on the WW2/Cold War propaganda posters. I have no idea where it comes from or who did it. If anyone knows please let me know.

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Artistically it is unimaginative and clichéd. And like a lot of propaganda posters, it bears no resemblance to reality. In wartime, the truth is often sacrificed for the good of public moral - we are not at war. I don't know whether this poster is a parody of the most ridiculous arguments against open source, or an /example/ of the most ridiculous arguments against open source. It's not particularly impressive either way.

As for the "open source is communism" arguments, these have been debunked so many times that no one seriously uses them any more. I don't want to feed this new troll by going into detail - it's easy enough to find arguments and counter-arguments with google. The same goes for the claims of open source development costing jobs.

The OP had technical issues about doing PIC development with Ubuntu. I hope the earlier technical answers helped him out.

Not at all. It is very well executed.

Yes.

Of course. You seem to be confusing the art with the message.... actually I am not sure if it is serious or a parody.

"Often"? ..... "always"

There are lots of wars going on. Half the world is engaged in a war somewhere. Some military some political most financial and commercial.

I am not sure either. However itis on a par with the arguments above that using open source puts people out of work at Microsoft (actually they are probably empl;oying more lawyers :-). and that Open source programmers eat babies and rape your mother/sister etc :-)

You are just upset it pokes fun at your cult. Relax. No one is taking it seriously are they?

Who was being serious? I have never heard anyone equate Open Source with communism. I assume some Americans might but they have a history of that sort of thing. I assume that the poster is of US origin as Europe has never had a problem with Reds under the beds etc.

Neither did I but the propaganda-poster is so OTT that I assumed that no one would take it seriously. (So un-twist your undergarments) As I said the troll poster reminded me of the Open-source == communism poster. As I said it is a propaganda poster. No one takes them seriously except in US elections and health care debates (no lets not go there :-).

AFAIK it would be stupid to try and put any Linux or Unix on to a PIC

1. Wrong sort of architecture. Better with a smaller Kernel system or bigger MCU.

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It's not a cult, and I'm not upset. Perhaps my post was overstating my reaction.

I guess I just don't think think there was anything worthwhile in that picture - it is too worn out to have any entertainment value, and isn't a particularly clever, funny or artistic copy.

The trouble with this sort of thing is that there /are/ people who really do believe such nonsense as "open source is communism" - this "Starinski" guy appears to be one of them. People with such one-sided ideas - whether it be "open source is the root of all evil" or "open source is the savour of mankind" - /do/ tend to take things like this seriously.

I'm all for poking fun at extreme ideas, or even perfectly good and sensible ideas. And I'm all for artistic interpretations that make people think, or that just look nice. But something that is designed just to bug people and isn't funny, doesn't come with new ideas or information, and doesn't even look nice, has very little merit (except perhaps as a discussion starter).

Unfortunately, there are many who /do/ take this seriously. They may be Americans, but like it or not, the USA is a fairly big player in the technical world. Even the great BG himself said something close to this, and there are many people who treat his word as gospel.

I suppose that most of the c.a.e. readers are a bit more sensible than that. Maybe I've just be hearing or reading too much about fanatics (of any sort, not just in the IT world) these days.

I believe the OP was using Ubuntu as the development host, not on the target. Apart from a few experiments long ago, *nix has always been strictly 32 bit or more.

Depends where you stand and who you talk to.

OK..... :-)

I think so. Relax. I was not expecting anyone other than the idiot who was claiming OS== communists would take it seriously.

Then we have to disagree. I know a lot of people who think it was funny, well executed and a very good pastiche. (Artists, photographers and Non Open Source Devotees, there are people I know who do open source who are not fanatical about it thought it was very good)

I know. Frightening isn't it? :-) I am not really sure on how the logic works for that.

Yes which is why this poster sprang to mind. Two of a kind and you don't take either seriously. At least the picture has some artistic merit and is, I assume, a piss take. I can not for one moment think the authors took it seriously.

I know.

As this poster does. It is a very well executed pastiche on the genre. All the details are there. Not that it is my favourite style of art.

It only bugs the fanatics.

Then they should have it waved in front of them so they react and we can identify them.

No one else gets quite so wound up about communism. That was last millennium's "problem" and only for 50 years at that. These days they are wound up over "islamo-fascists"

But shrinking player. The emphasis has moved.

BG? The man who had to play catch up on the significance of the Internet? The company who launched VISTA? Also you know how MS plays in the industry... Bill is no more independent than the FOSS types who rant over a pastiche of a propaganda poster.

I would like to thinks so but there is more noise to signal and a lot of the old regulars seem to have gone or be just lurking these days. It is not like it was in the early 90's

I agree... people are getting more extreme. Sad really. When I saw the picture I saw a (well executed) pastiche of a propaganda poster. IE nothing to be taken seriously. The artistic detail on it is very good EXCEPT... look at it again the "PC" in question appears to be one of the Apple Mac range.... Didn't they have a range of coloured Mac's with a handle set in the top as per the picture? I thing this is the work of a Mac programmer (media/graphics person?) not some one using MS sw at all. The closest they may get to MS is using Office on the Mac. (Which is better than on the PC :-)

In that case I misunderstood. I just got caught up by the wonderful delusional outpourings of Open source == communism! Now not even I have suggested that in any of my discussions.

Given the sort of people who use PIC, ie a lot of small, home, student and hobby experimenters I would have thought there would be Linux based dev tools for PIC though Microchip are notoriously difficult to deal with if you want inside information on their tools.

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I agree to disagree :-) I suppose these things are a matter of taste.

You're making an unwarranted assumption - logic has nothing to do with it!

Some people seem to define themselves in terms of who they are not, or who or what they dislike, rather than anything positive. I like to think that's a minority of people, but sometimes they seem to be a rather loud minority.

Yes, that's the one.

Actually, it is the small user market that is most heavily dominated by windows-only tools. You can divide software roughly into expensive closed source, low-cost or free closed source, commercially supported open source, and zero cost open source. (I'm talking cash costs here, not time costs.) There are host operating systems in each category, and applications (including development tools) in each category. The small user is typically looking for free or low cost tools, but running on windows (a low cost version). People using open source OS's for their development hosts are either particularly technical small users, or serious professionals who understand the advantages and have the skills and support required.

So Microchip's developers are, as small users, mostly running windows. You get the same for many other micros - most users of avr gcc run it with windows, for example.

That picture is an edited version, the original version read "When you pirate MP3s, you're downloading Communism" or something similar. The computer is indeed Apple's original iMac, which says something about how old the poster is.

-a