Phase angle power control

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Hello!

I would like to control the power of a three phase Linear Induction Motor
(LIM) with phase angle control. At my hands I have a couple of SSRs (Solid
State Relay) and a microprocessor. I get a trig to the CPU when the first
phase crosses zero.

Now the only (?) thing I need is the algorithms and/or tables to calculate
the
needed firing angles to supply the whished power to the LIM. With a single
phase this would be rather simple, but three phases drive me mad.

I have made an extensive search on the net without finding anything but
finnished products. Seems hard to come by material about needed algorithms
and example control programs.

Would be great if anyone could provide some useful info!

Best regards,
Johan Englund




Re: Phase angle power control
Hi, you cant use SSRs, you need 2 thyristors for each phase. Use an opto
coupler, 1 for each thyristor pair, to give you feedback signals to the micro
for sync. When a thyristor pair go off a voltage appears across them, this
turns the opto on which signals the micro. The software times from this point
for a delay period and refires the pair at the end of the delay. You need to
fire 2 pairs at once to get it started but after that its self sustaining as
long as you dont go too low. If you need to phase down to zero output then you
have to fire the six thyristors in pairs but on different phases, you can get
the sequence from any textbook on 3 phase dc drives.

Re: Phase angle power control

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micro
point
to
as
you
get

Hey, thanks for the input!

The solution with SSRs was recommended by the company that manufactures the
motors
and I was under the impression that they had tested it and knew what they
where talking about,
but since you seem to be well informed I'll have to call the guys and
confirm.

As far as I knew a SSR is basically composed of a couple of SCRs
(thyristors?)? I'm just the computer guy that are going to program the micro
but I'm having kind of a crash course in high power electronics now :)

I guess that the "any textbook" that you are referring to is what I'm after.
Could you perhaps name one or even better, point to some resource on the
net?

Thanks a million!

/Johan



Re: Phase angle power control
Hi, you could try "power electronics handbook" by F.F.Mazda isbn 0-408-03004-6.
It's quite dated insofar as it doesn't have much on inverters, but it has
everything and more with regard to thyristor circuits.

Re: Phase angle power control
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You should consider a finished product.
Solid state relays won't do it.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net


Re: Phase angle power control

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Motor
(Solid
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first
calculate
single
algorithms

Would you care to elaborate on that? Since the SSR solution was recommended
by the guys that manufactures the LIM I'd be very interested to be a little
enlighted since high power electronics is not my expertise!

Johan



Re: Phase angle power control
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You have to constuct phases out of nothing. Or even worse you have to
constuct phases out of a 3phase supply. As some said, you can use
thyristors. These are semiconductors that conduct upon a trigger until
the current reaches zero. It is doable and it is done. When you make
a mistake with the trigger, the whole can blow up due to overcurrents.
So make the semiconductors replaceable as simple a possible. The algorithm
may be looked up in a textbook, I heard it once as a one year lesson with
2 hours per week.
Since the usual solidstate AC relays have zero crossing detectors to
switch on, you're somewhat limited. Better have a controlled rectifier to
get DC first, then some Mosfet that allow microsecond resolution.
Then you have to PWM as many phases as you need.
A major project that keeps you busy for several months.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net


Re: Phase angle power control

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SSRs
the
recommended
little

Well, I am under the impression that the procedure on this project will only
involve chopping up the voltage supplied from the network, frequence will
not be modified. The SSRs picked should obviously be able to switch on not
only at zero crossing since the resolution without phase angle control won't
be
good enough.

Do you have a name on a good textbook on the subject or even better, some
place to find this algorithm on the net? I'm rather axious to get started so
I'd
hate to have to wait a week or two on a book.

I'm rather curious thou, how will it be possible to blow this thing up just
by
triggering at the wrong moment? Shouldn't the SSRs (and the thyristors in
them) be able to handle triggering at anytime?

Thanks for the input!

Johan



Re: Phase angle power control
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only

but how are you going to control the motor speed if you don't change the
frequency? Wasn't this a linear synchronous motor?

Meindert



Re: Phase angle power control
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It is a linear induction motor, one of these flat ones you know? Not a
revolving one, the stator and rotor is spread out. Currents induced in
the reaction plate (rotor) by the stator travelling field creat a
secondary magnetic field. It's the reaction between these two fields
which produces the linear thrust...

By what I learned of Spehro Pefhany, phase angle control will only
reduce the torque, not the speed of  the motor, this will in turn make
the slip increase, thus making it possible to control the speed of the
reaction plate.

Right or wrong?


Re: Phase angle power control


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only
won't
so
just

A quick refresher on induction motor control:
---------------------------------------------

An induction motor consists of a stator with windings and a short-circuited
rotor. The magnetic field in the stator is made to rotate at the rate of the
supplied AC (or a submultiple thereof). In three-phase motors the rotation
occurs naturally because of the phase sequence. In single-phase motors the
rotation is created with a starter capacitor or a split and shorted magnet
pole.

The magnetic field induces a voltage in the rotor winding which quickly
converts it to a hefty current (the winding is a short - see the rails along
the rotor). The current in the rotor creates a magnetic field which makes
the rotor follow the rotating field. The rotating rotor field creates a
back-EMF in the stator windings which opposes the supply voltage and thus
limits the total current in the motor.

There is always a small lag between the field rotation and the rotor
rotation (e.g. 1500 rpm field rotation creates the usual 1450 rpm European
motor). This lag keeps up the rotor current and thus also the torque the
motor is able to deliver. When the rotor drops well out of synchronisation
with the supply frequency, the back-EMF does not work anymore as supposed,
so the motor quite quickly converts to a short-circuit. This is the cause of
the hefty start-up spike of an induction motor.

You want to create an out-of-sync condition by starving the supply feed so
far that the motor speed drops. With fan load it may sometimes be done
without winding smoke, as the torque demand of a fan is roughly proportional
to the square of the rotational speed, so it drops quite fast with dropping
speed.

IMHO, the only working method to control induction motors is a
variable-frequency drive with voltage tracking. The back-EMF changes with
rotational speed, so it has to be compensated for.

There are thyristor and triac circuits which can directly convert the
frequency of three-phase AC to another frequency, but they are far from
simple. Google for 'cycloconverters'.

HTH

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio @ iki fi




Re: Phase angle power control
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Since thristors conduct until the current becomes zero, and an inductor
has the current as integral of the voltage, a thyristor is triggered on the
falling slope of the sine. Assuming an inductive load, there is current
flowing well into the region where the sine is negative. When you trigger at
the peak voltage (90 degrees) then you get almost 180degrees of conduction.
Per phase.
Doing 4 quadrant control, you also need a negative conducting branch.

Using MOSFETs for a frequency converter is limited to the smaller converters.
It depends on the size of you system, ahem the power it has. I guess 10kW is
doable with MOSFETs, whereas 1MW probably is not doable anymore.

Be able to synthesize the frequency from zero up when a lot of power
is at play. The surge may not be bearable.

As to the blowing up of thyristors, yes with a suboptimal setup, where the
line impedance is too low, especially when the recommended isolation transformer
is omitted for cost reasons, and the thyristors are coosen for the operating
load, then you can blow them up. No, fuses won't help. Fuses have a I^2*t
characteristic, and they are too slow. In the shortcircuit case of a 10 Amp
fuse, you can easily get 500Amps for a period or so. Have an isolation
transformer for this.

Actually, building a frequency converter is more suited to sci.electronic.design
than comp.arch.embedded

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net


Re: Phase angle power control
Rene, I sure when you wrote this post you thought you knew something of the
subject in hand and were being helpful. Well you don't and your not.

Re: Phase angle power control
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:08:27 +0100, the renowned "Johan Englund"

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If you want to control speed (not torque) on a linear induction motor,
I think you're going to need a VFD (variable-frequency drive, not
vacuum fluorescent display). Those devices output a synthesized sine
wave at the required frequency and voltage to maintain torque and
change speed. They are not a beginner project in any way. The last big
one I heard of (big linear motor) had an "event" that resulted in the
vaporizing massive bus bars and cubic meters of control cabinet due to
a firmware "issue". On a smaller scale, one tends to blow a few sets
of expensive power semis.  

If you just make a 3-phase phase control you'll just reduce the
torque. In some special applications (fans, for example) that is good
enough as the motor won't stall over a fairly wide range and the slip
increases, thus changing the RPM.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
snipped-for-privacy@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Phase angle power control

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(Solid
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calculate
single
algorithms

Well, the LIMs will be used to transport stuff on a rail in small "cars",
the lims will be mounted on the rail with the reaction plate in the car. Fun
stuff. The phase control solution was recommended by the lim manufacturer
mainly for cost reasons I suppose. I have been given the mission to make use
of the SSR solution that have been presented to me. To my frustration it
doesn't seem to be as simple as just getting the firing angles and implement
the thrust control in the micro. There almost seem to be a little "secret"
in building a good firing circuit. Is this really so complicated? Or have I
been too damaged in my relatively simple digital world? :)

/Johan



Re: Phase angle power control
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I think everyone has got the wrong end of the stick here. This is a
linear induction motor. Not a rotary one. My understanding is that you
drive the winding segments in sequence along a linear track. The
velocity of the item you move along the track is dependent on the rate
at which you drive the segments and the distance between the segments.
Unless you want to achieve rail-gun like velocities you can probably
energise one segment at at time using SSRs.

Am I right about this Johan?

Cheers
TW

 
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Re: Phase angle power control

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Yes, right on target, this is exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm going
to put together the micro that is going to be put at each LIM motor.
This micro is going to talk to an overlaying system to get the
acceleration needed on its LIM when the item passes over and then fire
the SSRs accordingly.

So my problem is to understand how to get the right firing sequences of
these SSRs in order to get the required thrust.




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Re: Phase angle power control
On 14 Nov 2003 04:57:01 -0800, the renowned

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They work the very same way!

Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
snipped-for-privacy@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Phase angle power control

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The basic physics stays the same, regardless whether the motor is flat or
rolled into a cylinder. The speed is still tied to the excitation frequency.
In a linear motor the field wanders a pole set each cycle.

HTH

Tauno Voipio
tauno voipio @ iki fi




Re: Phase angle power control
Consider rectifying the AC, then drive the motor phases with a 6 FET bridge.
To make the job easy,
take a look at the TI TMS320 line of DSP chips. TMS320LF2402, 06, 07, etc.

They have motor control libaries for C and Asm. Creating a 3 phase control
with one of these chips is very easy.

later,
Larry E.

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