performance based pay - Page 2

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View
Re: performance based pay
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I agree. And all these valid 'reasons of failure' are almost never
understood by management of sales people.

Meindert



Re: performance based pay

Quoted text here. Click to load it
Especially when the schedule is based, as it usually is, on the fantasies of
salespeople and not on the considered estimates of the engineers involved.
And even when the estimation is done by the right people, it's seldom
accurate. Engineers are optimists by nature (they have to be) and pessimists
by training. When it come to estimating, nature usually seems to trump
nurture!

Peter Bushell.



OT: Time estimation (was: Re: performance based pay)
:
: Especially when the schedule is based, as it usually is, on the fantasies of
: salespeople and not on the considered estimates of the engineers involved.
: And even when the estimation is done by the right people, it's seldom
: accurate. Engineers are optimists by nature (they have to be) and pessimists
: by training. When it come to estimating, nature usually seems to trump
: nurture!
:

I've learned the one tried and true software time estimation method.

Take how long you think it will take, add one, and go up to the next time
denomination.

Example: 1 week = 2 months, 1 month = 2 years, 2 days = 3 weeks, etc

ttyl,

--buddy

: Peter Bushell.
:
:

Re: performance based pay
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Apart from what the other posters said, you are asking for something
that heavily depends on your quality control and your post did not
left the impression here that you know what this means in this
context.

Just as an example of what I mean, what does it help if code is
written in time, seems to be working - even over wide areas that are
most often used, but as soon as situation X apears (say one year from
now) the code totaly breaks and analysys showes that a total different
aproach must be made to handle these special situation thereby
rendering 50% of the project useless?

With your aproach, some of your people will have made good money by
this time, and those that were willing to address unexpected problems
most likely got less money. After time however it would become aparent
that you were paying the money to the wrong people.

Out of my experiance in 20+ years of software developement I can tell
you that I never ever finished a resonable project without multiple
unexpected problems. Your aproach would actually motivate people to
hide such stuff which definately would lead to situations like I
described. You would end up with lot's of "finished" software that
looks and feels good, but that would not cover all requirements.
Just my 2 though.

Markus

Re: performance based pay
Quoted text here. Click to load it

This is very difficult and always leads to arguments about what should
be measured and how it should be measured.  It can easily be devisive
which is not what you need when trying to build a team spirit.

Quoted text here. Click to load it

The only one I was involved in was profit related.  That meant everyone
had to pull their weight and those that did not were soon spoken to bt
their peers.

Ian


Re: performance based pay
Quoted text here. Click to load it
pay
(with
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I guess I should clarify here a little.

I am a software engineer of about 15 years, I know the inherent difficulties
that are faced during software development.  I also know that many of the
problems are of the programmers own creation. But that's a different thread.

I know that PBP is a good motivator and has worked well on some companies.
Although the best example I know of is a contract development company, which
makes it easier in my mind to set the milestones for a given employee.

I can assess if someone is doing a good job and if someone is worth their
wage, but given local employment legislation I cant just 'fire' some one,
nor would I want to be having to do that. I can take someone on trial for 3
months by which time I will know if they are good or not, but I can not
guess their motivation over time.

So all I am trying to do is figure out a way where there is an achievable
goal that is reachable and gets the best from a person, but doesn't lead
them to overvalue themselves (a high wage) or expect a PBP (as in a bonus
scheme).

I think that share options can be too nebulous in a company that is of any
size if it's not listed.

As for pay on milestones, it seems to me that that could only cause discord
when trying to set it, I would naturally set the post high and the would be
payee would want them lower.

Fundamentally PBP is a very good driver for many people, their actions
directly affect their outcome. If it wasn't for this there would be no
company and I wouldn't be in the position to offer position to people.

Ralph




Re: performance based pay
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I think the answer to your question is no.  The real problem is the
culture of the company and one where there are targets/goals tied
directly to remumneration you will end up with a peticular type of
culture, one where personal gain comes before the group/company gain.

The best company I ever worked for operated a meritocracy.  If you
worked hard you were rewarded well.  Of course this needs a fair
management team and fair individual assessment plus the confidence to
empower the team members to make decisions and get on with the job, not
easy to achieve but not impossible either.

I worked with such a team of people for nearly 20 years.  It made me
rich and I retired at 50.  Nuff said.

Ian


Re: performance based pay

It's called consulting in this part of the world.

Quoted text here. Click to load it
pay
(with
Quoted text here. Click to load it



Re: performance based pay

Quoted text here. Click to load it
pay

Tough.  Don't do it.   There's no simple way to measure
productivity, or contribution to a given project.
Quoted text here. Click to load it
(with
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Hire a consultant or a
Quoted text here. Click to load it



Re: performance based pay
Quoted text here. Click to load it

The only way it will really work is to have the
evaluations done by somebody who is close to the
action and understands quality when they see it.

At one company I worked at other people ended up
being rewarded for my good work and I got
rewarded for other people's good work. Ocassionally,
people were fired for other people's bad work.
It was totally nuts. The decisions on who did good
and who did bad were made by managers who didn't
know what was going on.

Tom



Site Timeline