NXP Gone mad

I happen to sincerely dislike it when I'm not allowed to copy out small sections into documents I'm writing to others, to provide a quick quote from the source. Bugs me, seriously, when that is forbidden. And I happen to enjoy adding yellow tags of commentary I may place into the text so that I can recall bits when I return to the file.

Jon

Fortunately, few forbid this. If it Does occur, it is either a NDA document (which I can understand has the copy disabled :), or it's a simple operator setting oops. In the latter case, an email to the right place often solves the problem :)

Do you mean in the pdf, or in your own document ? PDF mark-ups are not common.

-jg

Oh, it's quite common in some circles. If memory serves, most of the Microchip PDF files have disabled the ctrl-C and the Edit/Copy feature.

Yes. I have Acrobat, not just Acroread, and I use the little yellow tags to note things as I first review and study a data sheet or else when I am working and notice a deviation or something needing better explanatory detail. Or just if something strikes me to include there. Then I save the file in my own repository for the project.

Jon

I've found that many vendors forbid "cutting" stuff from PDF documents. It's particularly assinine when it's an app note or datasheet containing snippets of code or configuration constant values that need to be copied exactly. It's helpful to have a copy of xpdf that's been hacked to ignore the "don't cut" flag.

Why put a table of configuration constants in an app note if the customer isn't supposed to _use_ them?

Fully agree. I have to cut and paste, for example, timing diagrams. How else would you explain that stuff to SW engineers via your module spec? In consequence, I prefer vendors that allow this. In consequence, those vendors get to enjoy the design-win and lots of sales.

But this requires good corporate thinkers, a species that seems to be dwindling at an alarming rate.

I just recently ran into a situation with Mitsubishi PLCs. As has become the general trend for software they don't ship manuals anymore (even if they do charge for the SW) but rather have a set of PDFs. Some of them on the SW CD, some you really have to hunt for. I printed some of this out and took a look at the remaining 'manuals'. They were going to be on the order of 1000 pages so I took them to the local copy centre to have them printed since that would be cheaper and they could do double sided printing and binding. The local copy centre wouldn't print them without written permission since they had a copyright notice. OK, I though, I'll get that from Mitsubishi, after all they surely expected these to be printed. Aparently not, they won't give permission even for a single copy. They will, though sell me each 'manual' for rather more than the copying costs for the whole collection. I sometimes think some companies out out to actively discourage the use of their products.

Robert

I've had exactly the same experience. I wanted to get a printed copy of TI's MSP430 manuals. Try getting through to the attorneys there to get this worked out!

Companies really need to take care of this by providing an explicit legal document to anyone who asks, with just a "fill in the blank" for your name or company name.

Jon

You'd be surprised how many legacy systems and readers are out there. I as a consultant cannot say to a client "Hey, I'll load some new SW onto this here PC". Their IT guys would have me handcuffed. So if a semiconductor manufacturer choses to use a weird kind of format that's incompatible with umpteen percent of their potential customers' PCs they will lose business. Lots of business. I don't want to be in an executive level manager's shoes at NXP board meetings later this year. I think it can get ugly there.

Or some sort of boiler plate in the PDF allowing printing but not selling. Maybe copyright laws prevent that but you'd think something should be possible.

I asked an Intel rep for a printed copy of the '196MH user manual a couple of years ago and he printed it up for me. Clearly practice varies.

Robert

I disagree. When there is no compelling reason to upgrade a cache of existing machines, why do it? Just to burn up some cash because it turns out that those machines would be too old to properly run XP? Now that would be silly.

Another point to think about in this context are engineers in not so well off countries. Central Africa, parts of Asia, South America, countries behind the former iron curtain, just to name a few. They simply may not have the dough to buy a new machine for everyone on a whim. There are countries where people are lucky to make $1 an hour, and the budgets are proportionately lower as well. Yeah, you can buy a full lunch for 50c there but they do not have $500 each for a new PC.

The chainsaw sound might reappear. At one of the next NXP board meetings when the big brass realizes that the sales numbers are beginning to point downward ;-)

Digikey usually gets you to the datasheet fast. But only if you already know the P/N or found it via their search. I don't know how NXP wants to push new stuff now that their web site is kaputt. I do read their news brief emails but it's mostly boring low Vce transistors that I'm not going to be using anyhow (unless they were under 2c/1k...).

There are companies that have actually used Java for a useful purpose. These guys even let you sort by price (!):

Now, there, NXP guys! Look at that site, roll up the sleeves, get a few crates of Grolsch and lots of pizza, then make your site like this one. Just stay away from those tobacco pouches, not healthy ;-)

Agree 100%.

Agree 100%.

In my discussions, it didn't seem all that easy. They wanted to have copyright for some obvious and not-so-obvious reasons. For example, they don't want the document being used for unintended purposes. But they probably do want engineers who might use (or are using) their parts to be able to print personal editions. How they would feel about some publisher just taking the material and printing off 10,000 copies for sale, I don't know. (Some might do that for certain very popular manuals. But I hope they wouldn't mind too much, even then.)

In any case, I think I got the clear message from one attorney that they do NOT want to place these documents into the public domain and that there are some uses they don't want to permit (though I didn't care to dig into all that reasoning, as my own use seemed legitimate and I was focused on just that and only that.)

A book printer I talked with did NOT want to just have some statement at a web site, though. They seemed to feel that an individual and personally assigned permission slip was needed, if the document wasn't explicitly in the public domain. Things in the middle were "too difficult" for them to be certain of, especially when it is not a "well worn legal path." They could, but don't want to have to evaluate and think about the legal details of every engineer coming to them with some odd-ball document with an uncertain permission. They really want to see, "Motorola authorizes John Smith to print this copyrighted material," and signed by a recognized legal representative of the company or else a blanket "its in the public domain" thing. Something in between scares them, because it may be subject to "interpretation" and they don't have the time or interest to take such chances.

Well, I've had the same thing done for me, too. It's none of my nevermind if a company guy prints it for me. I just accept graciously.

Jon

Make sense, especially considering they probably make only a relatively small amount per transaction. And I can understand the Manufacturers not wanting the documents to be public domain. It just seems a sad waste that some sort of middle ground doesn't exist given so few organizations want to provide printed documentation any more.

Yeah, if the Mitsubishi rep had said I can't give you that, but I can give you a printed copy I'd have given a sincere thanks and moved on. Providing printed copies to those who ask for them explicitly is certainly a reasonable approach.

Ah well, enough complaining on the topic.

Robert

I have win2K and winzip, but the complaint is not OS related, it is the browser/web that decides it needs to Zip, and save to disk, before I can see the PDF, by then opening that Zip. Just plain needlessly clumsy.

It does not always make the 'Zip this' decision, which I think is trigggered by someone deciding to include a 'Philips is now NXP" rah-rah sheet - that is pure silliness :) [As if someone that deep in their website, does not KNOW that already ?]

My understanding of their reply, is they undertake to fix this.

-jg

... snip ...

One more thing - Ensure the developers download their creations for inspection over, at most, a 28.8 kB line. If they take too long, they won't do.

... snip about compressing .PDF files ...

So, at worst, make the download available in both forms. Such a provision will probably pay for itself shortly in the form of reduced service time.

I re-disagree. :=) I am running Ubuntu 6.06, and W98 FE (note first edition) and both systems have everything we have discussed here. Most of those programs are at least five years old on the W98 machine. That includes 7zip, bzip2, zip, etc.

They ought to be deleriously happy if soembody was going to print 10,000 copies of their manual for them -- as long as they weren't stamping out counterfit ICs to go with the manuals. ;)