Need an OS for an ARM based board

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I need opinions for an OS which must be Open Source & and have Open
Source dev tools. The CPU we're using is the AT91R40008-66AI, we have
1M of SRAM & 2M of Flash (I may be able to double both), I need to add
network support but we haven't selected an interface yet. The device
will be used for Home Automation and will support smaller remote
ucontrollers as well as directly connected sensors.

Thanks.

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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
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I would strongly recommend eCos for this application.
sources.redhat.com/ecos. eCos is Not Linux (pronounced to rhyme with GNU is
Not UN*X). But familiarity with Linux will speed you up the eCos learning
curve.



Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
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Thanks!

I'm actually going to avoid using Linux or *BSD because I don't need
all that extra stuff. I'll visit RedHat and maybe get a book on eCos
to familiarize myself with it. Any idea on what the recommended
minimum memory foot print might be. I went searching before but didn't
make much head way. I'll still listen to opinions just to make sure.

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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
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Note: eCos is no longer a Red Hat owned project. It is just hosted
there.

You can see Anthony Massa's book at http://ecos.sourceware.org/docs.html

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"Recommended"? As small as possible of course ;-). eCos's overhead
scales from 1K to hundreds of K. eCos is configurable, so it depends
on what eCos features you include.

Jifl
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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
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I found the book and because I'm leaning towards ECOS I'm going to
purchase the book. I also found this article:

http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT3393503683.html

on ECOS vs ucLinux I found number I can start with. It states ECOS -
60K vs ucLinux 600K as a starting point but if I double ECOS (120K) &
half ucLinux (300K) I still lean towards ECOS. I've downloaded ECOS
and I'm going to work with it over the next few weeks and I'll see
where it leads me. Thanks this has been very helpful so far.

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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
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I've just been looking into the amount of memory needed for an eCos
application and the code size for an image with the kernel, scheduler,
libraries, Ethernet driver, FreeBSD net stack, tftp, DHCP client,
SNMP, web
server, RAM file system, Flash file system (JFFS2), but not really any
application (just the snmp test) that I just built is about 640k
bytes. That
was for an Xscale processor (IXP425). I haven't worked out how much
RAM it eats up yet. Redboot is about 180k code size.

- Charles

Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
Which compiler did you use for the eCos version and which for the Redhat?


: I've just been looking into the amount of memory needed for an eCos
: application and the code size for an image with the kernel, scheduler,
: libraries, Ethernet driver, FreeBSD net stack, tftp, DHCP client,
: SNMP, web
: server, RAM file system, Flash file system (JFFS2), but not really any
: application (just the snmp test) that I just built is about 640k
: bytes. That
: was for an Xscale processor (IXP425). I haven't worked out how much
: RAM it eats up yet. Redboot is about 180k code size.
:
: - Charles

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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
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You use gcc for eCos and RedBoot.  For the current version of eCow, Gcc
3.2.1 is the recommended version, IIRC.

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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
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I used GCC 3.3 from the GNUPro tools 030630 for both eCos and RedBoot
(same thing, really, RedBoot is just a specific configuration of
eCos).

- Charles

Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
Thanks  - Hul

:> Which compiler did you use for the eCos version and which for the Redhat?
:>
:>
:> : I've just been looking into the amount of memory needed for an eCos
:> : application and the code size for an image with the kernel, scheduler,
:> : libraries, Ethernet driver, FreeBSD net stack, tftp, DHCP client,
:> : SNMP, web
:> : server, RAM file system, Flash file system (JFFS2), but not really any
:> : application (just the snmp test) that I just built is about 640k
:> : bytes. That
:> : was for an Xscale processor (IXP425). I haven't worked out how much
:> : RAM it eats up yet. Redboot is about 180k code size.
:> :
:> : - Charles
:
: I used GCC 3.3 from the GNUPro tools 030630 for both eCos and RedBoot
: (same thing, really, RedBoot is just a specific configuration of
: eCos).
:
: - Charles

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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
Is eCos covered by the GNU licenseing agreement?

Hul

:> I need opinions for an OS which must be Open Source & and have Open
:> Source dev tools. The CPU we're using is the AT91R40008-66AI, we have
:
: I would strongly recommend eCos for this application.
: sources.redhat.com/ecos. eCos is Not Linux (pronounced to rhyme with GNU is
: Not UN*X). But familiarity with Linux will speed you up the eCos learning
: curve.
:
:

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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board

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Yes, but with an exception clause. See

  http://ecos.sourceware.org/ecos/license-overview.html


Regards,
Daniel

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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
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The short answer to that is "you can release closed-source applications
based on eCos".



Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
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Have you considered Forth?  I don't think there are any Forths avaiable
that will run on your embedded target out of the box, at least not free
ones.  But there are plenty that can be ported to the ARM.  

We expect to run Forth on the ARM on a new DSP board we are building.
But we are buying the MPE forth.  

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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
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What are you nuts? ;-)

I've decided on ECOS as our OS of choice. I think we really need an OS
as opposed to first learning Forth then writting our stuff. I've also
decided to go with the AX88796 chip for net access and I think we may
use the GoAhead software web server. This leaves us to work on the all
important Home Control System software.

Actually I don't have the time needed to learn Forth, I'm currently
working full time, taking 2 - 4 credit courses and working on the HCS
project. I still have my home and family so there no time left for
extra learning. I'm somewhat familiar with ECOS, the AX88796, C, C++,
*nix and the ARM board so it's a pretty good fit. Also I doubt too
many of this Open Source project participants know Forth which makes
it a bad choice in this case (those were some of the other details
that I left out of the message, sorry).

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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
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Yes, but isn't that question off topic?  


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What extra stuff would you need to write?  Depending on the version that
you use, Forth is a complete OS.  Since you are using an ARM chip, there
are a couple of versions available already ported and porting to a
processor can be fairly easy if you start with a well built package.  


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That may be.  But there are a lot of people from the forth community
willing to help you out.  But they are a different breed.  :)

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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
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Good answer!

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Yet that is part of the problem, I'm not familiar with Forth. The
group and myself are familiar with Linux and Windows. Forth would add
one more thing to learn. Since we have a realitively small group of
do-ers (3-4) and a few followers (waiting for usable hardware &
software I guess).

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Yes, they can take a joke (my comment above) with little insult. This
is a good thing. :-) Maybe one day I'll get a chance to learn Forth
but for now I've got my hands full.

Actually I don't expect a lot of people to be involved in our HCS
project. I really need to update the web page as we're much further
along than the page lets on. There are 2 links which may be of use to
those of interest:

http://hcs.sourceforge.net/
http://bbs.circuitcellar.com/phpBB2/index.php
http://bbs.circuitcellar.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=3&sid25%1cc1dc10255d29a9119ded4e5be78b


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Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board


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Any links to the forth ports for arm ?

I've found

www.forth.com  commerical

http://www.taygeta.com/hforth.html

Any recommendations ?

Re: Need an OS for an ARM based board
On Sun, 19 Oct 2003 02:12:40 +1000, "Alex Gibson"

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<vendor>
www.mpeltd.demon.co.uk

Our VFX Forth cross compiler produces quality code, has been
shipping for several years, includes an RTOS, and we also have
a TCP/IP stack with multi-threaded Telnet and Web servers (with
CGI and ASP). All this fits in about 110k code space on most
ARMs. You get all the source code.
</vendor>

Stephen
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