Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24 - Page 2

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Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24
On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 19:06:26 +0100, the renowned Rich Walker

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Ah, that explains why it looks so good.  

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Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
snipped-for-privacy@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24

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Sorry I don't get it. In what way is the ARM anything like the 6502?




Regards
Sergio Masci

http://www.xcprod.com/titan/XCSB - optimising PIC compiler
FREE for personal non-commercial use



.




ARM & 6502 (was: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24)
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Apart from the fact that Acorn claimed to have started development of their
own CPU due to 32-bit processors at the time lacking the latency they were
used to from the 6502, the only thing that's a callback to the 6502 is the
strict three letter mnemonics. It's most obvious in ORR, which obviously comes
from ORA.
But the architectures are otherwise too different to have much in common.

--
M.I.K.e

Re: ARM & 6502 (was: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24)
On 16 Oct 2005 11:33:17 GMT, in comp.arch.embedded Michael Koenig

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from little acorns....
Wiki is good on ARM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture




martin

Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 13:28:08 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)

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Which is true and one might have hoped would be a lesson from which
their competition could well learn.

Jon

Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24
Microchip has a *new* architecture for the 16-bit chips like the dsPIC
and PIC24, it is actually quite good.

Leon


Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24

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Ouch!
I see more sleepless nights for PIC Programmer code writers.

Don...


--
Don McKenzie
E-Mail Contact Page:       http://www.e-dotcom.com/ecp.php?un=Dontronics

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Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24
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SO just as the 16 bit market is declining Microchip enter it.

The 8 bit parts are getting more powerful and thanks to ARM the 32 bit
ones a lot less expensive. The 16 bit market is on the decline.

There are a few well entrenched parts that will go on for some time but
now is not the time to introduce a new 16 bit family.



--
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Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24
says...
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It makes sense to me.
Put out a migration path for your users that want a bit more processing
power so they won't look elsewhere.
Keeps the loyalty and money in their pocket.

                            Jim

Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 06:40:35 -0400, "Bill Giovino"

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Microchip sucks. I can't understand how come someone is paying 3.65
EUR for a PIC16F77, when an Atmel ATmega48 can be bought for 1.21 EUR.
(DigiKey, 100 pcs). The PIC is sheer crap compared to the AVR. I
didn't know so many rednecks were using MCUs. Otherwise, I can't
understand Microchip's survival.

Infineon C16X? What are you talking about? That is also sheer crap.
Get a life, and use any ARM7 (Philips, Atmel, TI, ...) or even a 24xx
TI DSP for a lower price.

Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24

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Professionals solve problems and take advantage of the properties of a
"strange" architecture.

Amatures bellyache about everything to distract others from the fact that
they cannot compete with professionals.


Regards
Sergio Masci


Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24

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Nice. So, what are the advantages of the architecture of a PIC16F over
that of an AVR, for instance?

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I might be an "amature" (depending on what it means for you), but it
takes an amateur to defend something that is both worse _and_ more
expensive. Professionalism is in fact the state of having learnt
already the right criteria to decide upon.



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Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 20:37:58 +0200, Mochuelo

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AVR and PIC have probably about the same number of architectural annoyances -
each has good and bad
points, but in the big picture, archictecture is WAY down the list of selection
criteria compared to
things like best-fit of peripherals to the application, cost, availbility (Atmel
have a bad track
record here), support etc.
 

Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24

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Absolutely and the 8051 has them both beaten hands down on that criteria
alone.

Ian


Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24
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Correct, and also way ahead of the AVR on design-life, and code
portability. Just have a read of the Atmel 'AVR Migration documents' :(

Microchip like to brand and count all PICs as one, as it boosts their
apparent market size, but when you look at their Average Selling price,
they are still very much skewed to the bottom feeder end, of sub $1 devices.

PIC's actually have many cores - so they all have different opcode
sizes, and ALL uC have issues when they cross a Opcode Knee.

The 12 bit opcode PICs clearly have smaller direct RAM sizes than the 16
bit opcode ones, and so that core needs paging sooner.
The newer (and larger) PIC18 picks up many 80C51 features.

  If it was my promotion, I would push the PIC24 as dsPIC-Lite, as it is
then more clearly (relatively!) mature, and has a clearer migration path.
  [Opcode removal is not unusual - the AVRs already have this in ATtiny
and ATmega.]

  Seems Microchip believe their average customers are more scared of
dsPIC than something branded PIC ?

-jg




Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24
Mike Harrison schrieb:

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I disagree. The only thing I don't like about the AVR is the Harvard
architecture, because it makes handling of constants and variables a bit
cumbersome when you program in C - but compared to the evils of the PIC
architecture (banking!) this is nothing.

Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24

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Interesting. Do you mean cumbersome in C itself or in the underlying machine
code created by the compiler?

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Absolutely.

Ian

Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24
Ian Bell schrieb:
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The problem is that you need different instructions to read from RAM and
ROM, so you often end up with two functions that do the same thing, one
for RAM arguments (printf), and one for ROM arguments (printf_P). See
http://wwwjobb4.iar.se/Support/?note86%174 . If a compiler would want to
handle that transparently it would have to generate code to distinguish
between RAM and ROM at runtime.

This problem doesn't exist in Von Neumann machines like MSP430.

Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24

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Right so the *real* problem is handling large constant strings.

IMHO the last thing you should be using on an 8 bit micro is library
functions like printf.

Ian



Re: Microchip Introduces First 16-bit Microcontroller Product Line - the PIC24
Ian Bell schrieb:
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Printf was only an example, the same applies to strcmp, puts, and many
more, not to mention your own functions that operate on constant arrays.
And besides, I don't think there's anything wrong with using printf on 8
bit controllers. It makes serial debugging, LCD usage and things like
that much more comfortable, and the additional 2-3 kB scarcely matter.

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