Microblaze, EDK, Spartan 3 and Webpack

You should ask this again in comp.arch.fpga

MicroBlaze is normally a charge-for core; the PicoBlaze is the only one that is free (Lattice have one called mico8). There are some recent threads on comp.arch.fpga about GPL MicroBlaze 'clones'

-jg

I'm drowning in Xilinx documentation and downloads.

I have the ML403, which includes a Base-X version of ISE, and uBlaze IP. Is that core only licensed for use in Virtex-4 designs, or is it permissible to use it in a Spartan 3 also?

The reason I ask this is because I just found out how much the Virtex 4 FX chip costs by itself, and I'm thinking I probably ought to follow the advice I got here, and retarget my book at a Spartan 3 board :) NOBODY will be building a casual prototype around the Virtex 4.

Does all the free downloadable stuff from Xilinx, including ISE Webpack, include uBlaze?

If the answer to any of this is no, I will have to start looking at public domain/GPL'd cores, which is a little irksome because it probably also means I will need to learn Verilog.

Okay, I will - thanks.

Note that this would not be for a shipped application. I merely want readers to be able to follow along with the examples.

One of the MicroBlaze clone's is called OpenFire.

In smaller cores you have

Mico8 from lattice, which is open sourced (now supported in AS assembler, Lattice's ASM is a tad too vanilla.. )

PicoBlaze from Xilinx (not open source ?, but free)

PacoBlaze, which is an interesting effort to nudge the PicoBlaze up a little.

There was talk of a C compiler for Pico/PacoBlaze, and I see Antti posted a basic compiler for PicoBlaze here

-jg

The EDK License is not free, therefore MB is not free. There are no ongoing per-use fees however.

Mike Harrison schrieb:

per-use fees however.

well, yes no. you cant buy MB, you can buy EDK. So if you buy EDK you get the software (SoC environment) and you pay for that. You do not pay for MB separatly, it is included "free" for the licensed owner of the EDK environment.

You may purchase the EDK say to develop PPC applications. But you would also get MB at no extra charge. So withing EDK MB is considered "free". OPB_I2C and several others IPs that are included in EDK as eval IPs on the other hand are not free (require extra licensing fee).

So the use of MB is "free" for the owners of EDK (What itself is not free). MB source code was also available for 20K USD (doesnt seem to be offered anymore). So MB (source) has never been free. But the use of netlist version withing EDK is free (there is no extra for the use of MB if you have EDK).

Well I agree, if something (like MB) can not be purchased (eg there is no price for it), then you can not say it costs so much. If it only available (for free) if you own something else that you must purchase, then the question is what is free and what have you paid for.

The only thing that can be purchesed from Xilinx is EDK yearly subscription (that is 1 year time-limited license). This costs 495$. And it does include MB use license as "FREE no extra pay".

Antti

Antti wrote: So the use of MB is "free" for the owners of EDK (What itself is not

Hi Antti, Another test of 'free' is in the license terms.

I don't think Xilinx allows, (for example) MB to be used on Altera or Lattice Silicon, or in an ASIC ? (without fee$) .

Part of it's reason for being, is to leverage customers into Xilinx FPGAs ( as is the Altera NIOS )

Lattice have made their smaller/simpler Mico8 Open Source.

-jg

Quite a lot of the cores available at opencores.org are VHDL - in fact you can filter by language if you so desire.

Cheers

PeteS

Goddamn, I hate Xilinx's software. Nowhere - NOWHERE in the documentation with the ML403 does it state that the license is limited to one year.

Is the ISE installation similarly limited?

"larwe" schrieb im Newsbeitrag news: snipped-for-privacy@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...

ISE is also sold as 'time based license' yes.

but it is not expiring after one year. so you can keep using. you just do not get free updates anymore.

maybe the license restrict that you should not use it for new designs after the maintenance period, I am not sure. The software itself remains full functional however.

ok I found it on Xilinx, web, first hit :) Xilinx TBL (time based license) read here:

Antti

This is rampant bullshit, and it is PRECISELY why proprietary development tools are so dangerous. It is not disclosed anywhere on the purchasing/specifications page for the ML403 EDK bundle that all this software is time-limited crippleware. Likewise, it is not disclosed anywhere in the software or any installed documentation. It is ONLY mentioned on the web site in an unrelated and semi-buried page.

In this case it isn't much money - $500 per year isn't a whole lot, and it's tax deductible. But how much is EDK? And where do they disclose this information about the price, or is it a case of "if you have to ask, you can't afford it"?

I'm emailing Altera and Xilinx simultaneously; whichever one offers the better deal for someone who's going to write about their products and never field a design, that's the one that goes into my next book. Fortunately I wasn't working on this section of it yet!

Why don't you post/cross-post to comp.arch.fpga? Peter Afke and Austin Lesea (and others) of Xilinx monitor and post there.

~Dave~

I've crossposted this, so someone in Xilinx can comment on the Details.

The link Antti gave does not mention webpack, or Microblaze, and I believe the webpack does not expire ?

I would expect MB to be a one-time license, "solely for use in developing designs for Xilinx Programmable devices."

You should also note that Xilinx's have 'separated from the pack' in that their latest webpack (free) does NOT support any of their newest V5 devices, as a matter of policy.

-jg