Interview preparation

Actually I suspect that it 'weeds' them in. Many companies don't have capable interviewers and these people 'look good to them' so they stand a good chance of getting the job IME.

tim

This is one of those situations in life where you need to decide how far you're willing to "play the game" to get where you want to be.

And I can understand your attitude towards future employers. For example, I would simply walk out of any interview that insisted that I sit any sort of "personality" test (I'm an engineer - I don't *need* one!). Ditto for interviews that resemble 3-hour uni exams - I finished with those years ago.

Having said that, you need to weigh up your "principles" vs the opportunity presented to you. You need to decide to what extent the interviewer represents the attitudes and culture of the company as a whole. Is it something that you, once firmly entrenched in your new role, would be in a position to influence for the better perhaps?

And don't ever, EVER volunteer that you don't know something. It will never work in your favour. Don't lie about it, but it all should operate on a need-to-know basis. And I can guarantee that your follow-up email was given nothing more than a cursory glance before being sent to the recycle bin. :(

Speaking as someone who has been on both sides of the fence... Regards,

The real test these days should be how effeciently you can google. To find the real skilled people you could get them to enter the search string and use the 'get lucky' option!

I always volunteer that I don't know something, as often as possible. I believe that lacking this sort of honesty and humility is what is wrong with the world and the main reason the world is going to hell.

Anyone who celebrates Christmas, which is many people judging by the TV commercials I see in December, must be aware of the principle that "he who humbles himself will be exalted" or that "he who loses his life will save it." I'm not Christian. I don't worship anything. I just agree with the principle.

Right. I said it backwards. :-)

I know. Speaking of which, this reminds me of "dressing to impress". I'm not going to wear a full suit. I have a suit, but it is machine-washable because I don't think looking fancy is worth the inconvenience of dry cleaning. I had a tie, but I threw it away. I figure a tie really serves no purpose, and I don't want to work for someone who has a tie fetish. The jacket, I think I will only wear when it's 60 degrees Fahrenheit outside. I think I will wear a sweater when it's any colder and simply the shirt when it's really warm.

I could have gone further and worn a sweat suit. It would be very comfortable because the fabric would be knit, but woven dress pants aren't that bad if they are the right size. I'm still thinking about this.

I could have gone further and worn nothing at all. :-)

I might submit to this. I'd like them to have full warning of my personality. :-)

That might be okay. I don't give company web sites more than a cursory glance, enough for me to figure out what the hell type of work they do. I say "what the hell" because I'm going to a job fair next week that's hosting 43 companies, and a web search for each of those companies only turned up 3 from whose web sites I could decipher the type of products they make. The others were either staffing agencies or were loaded with all that corporate mumbo jumbo that makes the company seem like they do something really important without making it clear exactly what that is.

Most of them reminded me of:

Speaking of trying to present the image of doing something while actually doing almost nothing. This staffing agency, who I've since abandoned, said they would give me directions and "everything" in addition to this interview preparation. The directions were pathetic. I thought they'd be from a person possibly noting landmarks or pitfalls, but they were simply the results of a MapQuest lookup copied into a Word document. :-)

By the way, you know what annoys me most about people's mindless games is that the rules are only made by a small subset of the people who believe in them while the rest simply follow out of fear and complacency. The ones who believe in the rules annoy me. The ones who simply follow annoy me even more, because I'm pretty sure there are more of them, enough to overwhelm the ones who believe. If they all decided not to follow then the rules would change, but their brute force is useless and impotent because their minds are weak.

I can go on for hours about why I disagree with this, but here's another take. Not admitting one's flaws promotes the idea that one is perfect both in the mind of oneself and the minds of others. No one is perfect, so this is a lie. Lying hides the truth. The truth is desirable, so not admitting one's flaws is undesirable.

At least, this is the reason I admit my flaws as often as possible. You might have other reasons, like seeking the approval of others, getting a fancy job, or getting a fancy promotion. None of these reasons matter to me that greatly.

Corporate life is spiritual death.

Here's more. Not admitting one's flaw promotes fear (of admitting one's flaws). Fear restricts freedom. Freedom is good.

("the truth will set you free")

Acting this way is the reason you think you have to act this way. You and people like you cause this problem yourself. You want to impress your potential boss, so you try to create a certain image, an image which isn't much worse than the average image created by other people. Therein lies the problem. The boss is judging you based on the average image. He's apparently too stupid to know any better, so he expects everyone to lie a little, and because you fear being different you perpetuate this. If the image created by other people (you) was honest, then you wouldn't need to try to hide anything. It's self-sustaining. You damn yourself.

:)

Reminds me of a documentary I saw, where a single lion stood watch on a rock, picking out its next victim from a herd of literally thousands of Wilderbeast. Of course the lion ate that day. But how many Wilderbeast would it take to trample a lion to death? Considerably less than even 1 thousand...

You sound more and more like what I'd label a radical, an extremist, a non-conformist. That's your choice and I respect that. I choose to "go with the flow" to *some* extent - which would appear to annoy you - because there are some battles that simply aren't worth either the effort or the sacrifice.

Regards,

First of all, I think you've misunderstood me somewhat. Admitting one's flaws is totally different to not *volunteering* that you don't know something.

If you get asked a direct question that you can't answer, of course you need to admit that you don't know, albeit in a way that suggests you're quite capable of finding out.

I'm saying that if you're asked a question on say, RF design issues, then don't follow up your answer with, "BTW I can't program for shit, I can't even spell FPGA, and I've never been able to wrap my head around this 'binary' concept!".

A skilled interviewer will be able to determine the scope of your knowledge and skill set him/herself.

If you *truly* believe that leaving your tie at home and spilling your guts is somehow going to come across as refreshingly honest and paint you in a better light than a well-presented individual who highlights his strengths, then you're either truly an idealist or simply naive.

How many interviews did you say you've been to?

Regards,

You need to dress appropriately for the position. Just like wearing a suit and tie to a cleaning job interview won't get you far, neither will wearing your underwear on the outside of your pants to an engineering job interview.

You should aim for the most formal attire you'd expect someone in that position to reasonably wear.

Regards,

You see things in black and white.

I've played the game plenty of times, yet here I sit in my office of employment, doing exactly the job I want to do (well 'billionaire tycoon' would probably be more fun), wearing exactly what I want to wear, my hours are flexible, and I live 6 mins away.

Did I have to sell my soul to get here? Did I have to step over dozens of bodies to get here? Did I say in my interview that Einstein stole his theory of relativity from me?

No. I just know when to swim, and when to go with the flow.

Regards,

Screw that. The purpose of clothing is to prevent people from being disgusted or aroused by my naked body. With that compromise, I'll wear whatever I feel is appropriate. I actually dress business casual most of the time, even now when I have no job. This basically means I wear woven fabric made out of cotton (pants and a shirt).

I wear "dress" pants. I don't wear jeans because denim is physically more stiff. I don't wear shorts except when I run, because in a world of clothing I don't think men's legs should be exposed. I'm still thinking about sweat pants. Besides the lack of belt loops, I still have some superstitious issues with them I need to overcome.

I may wear a pullover, but buttons make a shirt easier to open when I get hot.

As an ironic example to express my disagreement, at a place where I worked in college, I got hired for a higher position while wearing jeans and a pullover during the interview while a co-worker got hired for a lower position while dressing up fancy. It was a computer job. The higher position wasn't available at the time of the co-worker's interview, and neither position was that great (systems administration and help desk), but there's still some irony in the way people try so hard to use form to replace substance.

In areas where I don't have abilities, I just say it. :-) I'm not interested in using an ostentatious display to try to hide it, and when I have abilities I'm not interested in going through so much trouble for things that aren't even important.

I could go off on a tangent about how I don't think women should ever wear make-up because any man who can't see the attractiveness (viable genetic make-up) in a woman without make-up women is too stupid to propagate the human race, and the woman may be too ugly (poor genetic make-up) to propagate it.

LOL! You certainly are an interesting/colourful character!

Regards,

By the way, include plastic surgery in this too. It's the same conflict at the heart of this thread: actual ability vs. perceived ability.

Does someone actually have talent, or are they pretending?

Does someone actually have good genes, or are they pretending?

Does someone actually have a good personality, or are they just pretending to get hired/laid?

This last point is the reason I think first impressions are usually wrong and that the idea that first impressions are the most important is a fallacy. First impressions are only the most important to the person trying to get hired/laid. To the person doing the hiring or the laying (thinking he/she has found the right one), it does them a disservice to be delivered a fake, rehearsed image because later on the truth will emerge and they will be disappointed and regretful.

I do not believe in this. When someone interviews me, my primary intention is to be as polite as I am in the mood to be but also as honest as possible. This of course gets skewed a little because it's easy to be polite to people about which I know barely anything, people who haven't yet gotten on my last nerve over time, so even with the intention of honesty and forth righteousness, this is the reason that first impressions cannot be trusted.

I think this is wrong. First, I cannot remember in detail everything I have ever done in the workplace. However, if I know in advance something about the company that will interview me, and something about its products, I can spend some time recalling my work experience and matching it to the company. That way you can have a reasonable idea of the kind of technical questions that might be asked and also be able to point to relevant experience. After all you are selling yourself in an interview.

I agree with the 45 minutes though. I recruited engineers for 15 years and I use to take 2 to 3 hours per interview. My view was I was selling the company to the candidate as much as he was selling himself to me. It was a lot of hard work but I got some first class engineers who knew exactly what they were getting into.

Ian