Intel Atom: pros/cons/hazzards?

You are preaching to the choir! Amen!

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Rick

(snip, someone wrote)

American "cup" is about 236ml. Most measuring cups for liquid measuring (some of which are more than one cup) have metric lines also marked.

Dry measurements are done with a set of nested cups with no lines, the come in 1/4, 1/3, 1/2, and 1 cup sizes. You scoop into the bag of, for example, sugar, level off the top with a knife, then pour into the bowl.

Canada used to have imperial units (they are now metric) that were 5/4 times the size of the American unit. Gasoline was sold in Imperial gallons, for example, but now in liters.

As I found out not so long ago, the duty free allowance for alcoholic beverages into the US is 1L, into Canada it is 40 ounces, though I am not sure by now the size of the ounces. That might be

40 US ounces, or 32 Imperial ounces.

(snip)

(snip)

-- glen

And smaller quantities are handled with "(nested) measuring spoons":

1/8t, 1/4t, 1/2t, 3/4t, 1t, 1T -- and, less commonly, smidgen, pinch and dash. Note, also, that some ingredients (e.g., baking powder) are often packaged in containers that deliberately provide an "edge" to scrape the excess off the spoon as you withdraw it from the container!

I frankly can't imagine anyone using a scale/balance and being able to measure ingredients anywhere near as quickly! Biggest hassle is measuring liquid ingredients AND dry ingredients using the same set of spoons/cups: either do ALL the dry ingredients first; or, clean and dry the spoons/cups after using them on liquid measures (which commonly go into baked goods

*first*) before dipping them into the dry.

Or, buy more than one set of spoons/cups and toss each into the sink after its initial use! (my prefered solution -- they only take seconds to wash -- unless you were using them to measure something sticky or greasy!)

(snip on units)

1t is close to 5ml. It is commonly used for prescription medicine, where I believe it is exactly 5ml.

I haven't seen a 3/4t, but recipes do often call for one. I used to have a 1/2 T, though.

(snip)

I probably agree for just about everything except flour. Flour compresses as you squeeze the air out of it, making volumetric measurments not so accurate.

I have enough sets to use, and then they all go into the dishwasher to get washed. Buy more from a thrift store so that you have enough of them.

-- glen

Here in the US the liquor industry jumped on the metric bandwagon faster than any other segment of commerce. I think the reason is because they saw a way to profit by it. When they converted, every standard size bottle shrank a small amount...

Old size New size Miniature 2 oz 50 ml (1.7 oz) Half Pint 8 oz 200 ml (6.8 oz) could have been 250 ml or 8.4 oz Pint 16 oz 375 ml (12.7 oz) Wow, they really whacked this one Fifth 25.6 oz 750 ml (25.36 oz) couldn't get much closer Quart 32 oz 1000 ml (33.8 oz) they broke the rule here Half Gal 64 oz 1750 ml (59.2 oz) back on track

The quart is the only size that actually increased. They would have had to either drop the size or drop to some really odd sounding size like

950 ml.

The point is they likely didn't adjust the pricing initially, so they made more money. I bet this drove the tax guys nuts. The tax is based on the amount of alcohol and they used charts with sizes and proofs. I wonder if they redid the charts for metric?

I even see track widths in mm. Especially with today's very fine features mils doesn't buy convenience anymore. I'd rather use 0.1 mm than 3.5 mils.

Lol. Be careful what you start...

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Rick

I congratulate you on your short and to the point post... :)

I don't agree however. lol

Yes, we will be using Fahrenheit for a long time to come even if we did go "metric". But in professional work it bugs me no end to see PC boards being done in inches when nearly all the packages are metric! Heck, even the inch is metric, defined as 0.0254 meters.

Professionally there is no reason to continue to use the old English units and lots of reasons to not. Actually it is not a question of whether to adopt metric as we are already using metric. The question is whether we stop using the old English systems. It's time has passed...

--

Rick

I'd *like* a 1/2T (the 3/4t is obviously 1/4T) as I encounter it pretty often (e.g., twice in the cheesecake Rx)

I always measure flour the same way -- fill cup, tap side against a surface (e.g., the large glass jar in which I store the flour), then scrape top level. Whether *my* "1C" of flour is identical to yours (or not) won't matter as my Rx's are oriented to my baking and measurement styles.

E.g., I remove the chalazae from eggs in *most* Rx's -- doing so inevitably reduces the volume of egg in the mix (but my Rx accommodates that)

Yup. To me, they are life-long investments. So, I buy a nice, sturdy set. Then, if I decide I like it, buy a few more. They don't take up much space, don't cost much, etc.

[Next on my list will be half a dozen more cookie sheets and an equal number of cooling racks]

The set I had before this was disappointing. Acceptable in their intended application (measuring wet/dry ingredients). But, I found them "lacking" when I tried to use them to meter out cookie dough for some of my Rx's -- the handles would bend from the stress of scooping the dough out of the bowl (imagine trying to use them to meter out ice cream as an analogy)

So, they got repurposed to meter out pesticides, fertilizer, etc. (same units of measure!)

[Things like butter are relatively easy to measure without spoons as the wrapped quarters tend to be marked in convenient units: "Cut here for 1/3 cup". Vegetable shortening ("Crisco") is the only item that I dread measuring -- too sticky and greasy!]

(snip)

There is a story that when the USSR started making their own ICs, some of which were copies of US ICs, they used a pin spacing of 0.0025m, instead of 0.00254m. Sounds close, but over the length of the package they get farther and farther off, such that they don't fit in sockets or PC boards.

But yes, I like seeing metric units. I always have to remember which wrench set to get out, depending on which car I am working on.

It is Reagan's fault.

Carter started a metric conversion. Reagan couldn't figure it out, and canceled it.

When gasoline prices went over $1/gal, they were still under $1/L, and it was easier to convert most pumps to metric than to allow for $1.00/gal or more. That would have been a good time for the switch, at least for gasoline. If the government had required the conversion for gasoline, people would start getting used to it.

-- glen

(snip)

Probably makes it easier shipping the same bottles to the rest of the world.

As I noted previously, the duty free allowance coming into the US is 1L. You will find those 1L bottles in duty free stores, though they are hard to find other places.

For reasons I don't remember, carbonated soft drinks, such as Coca-Cola, are commonly sold in 1L and 2L bottles, in addition to 12oz cans and 20oz bottles.

-- glen

... only if it also extended to other "liquid measures".

"Why is milk measured in gallons but fuel measured in liters?"

It is relatively easy for a "professional" to adopt any measurement scheme that is compatible with the entities with which he interacts. However, if the entity with whom you interact is The Public and they are accustomed to dealing in one set of units, you risk making things markedly worse.

I believe most products here are labeled in "dual units". People can read whichever they are most comfortable with.

For many items, the "legal units" are effectively meaningless: do you care how much these 8 burger buns WEIGH? Or, are you just interested in the fact that there are *8* of them (not 7?) Would you care if bread was sold in 500g loaves -- instead of pound loaves? (you *might* if they were sold in kg loaves!)

For comparison shopping, do you care if the tag alongside the price normalizes the cost to ounces instead of grams/liters? All you really care is to have a number that allows you to unambiguously compare a "unit" of product A to an equivalent unit of product B.

Then, decide if *either* are at an appropriate total price point that you are willing to accept.

[If, tomorrow, flour was sold in kg, NO ONE WOULD CARE. All recipes would still be made with "measuring spoons/cups". You would just have to get used to the fact that there aren't as many in a "bag of flour" as there used to be! But, that already happens (as I alluded earlier). Sugar used to be sold in 5 lb bags. Now, they are 4 lbs. Doesn't impact any of my recipes. Just means I have to purchase 25% more *bags* than I did last year! If they were kg bags, then I'd have to buy ~TWICE as many.]

(snip, I wrote)

I don't think that is needed.

Yes, but one shouldn't be measuring milk and gasoline with the same measuring devices. One shouldn't store one in bottles meant for the other.

Now, ethanol, also used as a fuel, is also used in cooking, and in that case it could be a problem. (Fuel ethanol might be stored in gasoline cans and drinking ethanol in food bottles.)

I think for both professional and public it isn't so hard, as long as you aren't mixing units too often. As noted above, you don't normally mix gasonline and milk, so it isn't much of a problem.

The 2L soda bottles also don't seem to bother people. For one, soda isn't often used in recipes, and so is rarely measured accurately. Stores can compute "unit price" for labels as easily in any unit. (Computers don't care.)

Well, as I understand it, one has to be the primary unit. Or, the amount in the container should not be less than either.

But even so, if used when people need to measure them, it can be hard, and that doesn't even depend on the units.

If a recipe calls for 2.3 eggs, it is hard in English or Metric units. Some recipes are based on the common sizes of cans.

A Coke can might say 12oz and 236ml.

If butter comes in quarter pound sticks, that is convenient for many recipes. If it comes in 0.1 kg sticks, not so convenient. (It seems that the carton is marked for 453g.) If a recipe asks for 100g, it won't be easy to cut up a stick.

(Also, butter sticks have a different aspect ratio in eastern and western US. I don't know why that is.)

For a long time, hot dogs came in packages of 10 (per pound) and buns bags of 8. At one point, they made bags of 10 buns, but now they usually make 8 hot dogs in a package.

Most stores now have unit prices on the tag. Either required by law, or to make customers happy.

As long as you don't have any recipes that use a whole bag.

-- glen

Perhaps...

I wasn't referring to a shared measuring device. Rather, people

*think* in gallons (or, eventually, liters). Having to deal with two units for liquid measure -- that don't easily relate to each other -- I think is intimidating to many people.

E.g., the "manual" for your car would list "capacities" for the fuel tank in liters -- but the oil pan in quarts? And, cooling system??

Pick one and be done with it.

Some things are just more "notable" in our units. E.g., a "502 CID" block is far more impressive (sounding) than "8.22L"

Dunno. And, I suspect most consumers don't care -- they probably ignore the metric indications *if* they don't already intuitively know what they are buying (this is a POUND of butter... it isn't sold in 1/3 pound lots!)

Yup. I learned many years ago to not distribute Rx's to "foreigners" simply because of common usage units here not being directly translatable to units "there"

(e.g., what's a "square" of chocolate?)

OTOH, if it was in 0.1kg sticks, you could always transfer it to a measuring spoon/cup (softened to room temperature -- as already req'd in most Rx's). E.g., measuring vegetable shortening is done like this (at least in the small quantities that I use -- makes a helluva mess of the measuring cups!)

You can also buy butter in 1 lb chunks. Far less easy to measure out typical quantities. E.g., I use 2/3C in my "scratch" brownies. If it was sold in Xkg units, I'd want to buy it in *tubs*!

We buy buns in bags of *12*. :-/ That was the point of my upthread post: we ALWAYS deal with a hodge podge of units yet somehow the world doesn't end! (do people abroad buy hot dog/brat buns by *weight*? What do they do with the 0.37 bun that is left over?)

The Rx wouldn't likely say "a bag of flour". I *do*, however, have Rx's that say "5 pounds + 2C". But, one could readily make a one-time conversion: 5 pound bag == XXX Cups and be done with it.

Each time I tweek a Rx, I have to scale ingredients accordingly. But, I rarely scale by wacky amounts! E.g., instead, DOUBLE, halve, "half again", etc. So, you rarely end up with oddball quantities like "4/5T" (because you'd never START with 8/5 or 2/5!)

(snip on gasoline and milk units)

I suppose, but you don't tend to be thinking about them at the same time. Someone might imagine how many milk bottles it would take to fill the tank, but mostly only need to know if the number on the pump is reasonable.

I believe it lists both. Oil used to come only in quarts, but not they have also five quart bottles.

The tradition is that you add a quart when it gets to the add line. Probably you can also add a liter. (It is better not to be overful, but the difference is probably small enough.)

Again, as long as you don't mix them it doesn't matter much.

Oil comes in quarts, antifreeze in gallons.

At some point, some US company put the liter displacement in the name, and after that, people were used to it. Not to mention that it was common for foreign cars. People have gotten use to it now.

(snip)

Yes, I have bought the one pound sticks. Certain stores carry them, and usually for a lower price. (snip)

There is the story about medicine that says "take once a day", and Spanish speaking people getting it wrong. Seems that "once" is 11 in Spanish.

-- glen

Actually, I was wrong about the Miniature size. The old size was 1.6 oz almost the same as a shot, 1.5 oz. So the Miniature also got larger.

Your point about international sizes is likely valid. I remember being surprised by the 750 ml size though. Was that an international size long before the US converted to metric... in liquor sizes only of course.

Are there any areas where the US uses metric by convention?

I really am amazed that we are still not with the program. We tried going metric over 40 years ago! Why haven't we gotten a second wind?

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Rick

Why sell milk in gal? Why not 1 l, 2 l and 4 l sizes. No one would really notice that they are 10% larger than quarts, half gal and gal.

That only applies to some products like food. Try buying an 18 mm drill bit at Home Depot.

Unit pricing is often a joke. Things I buy in pounds are unit priced in oz and the other way around. Metric would be so much nice as I wouldn't care if they priced it by the ml or dl or l. I can convert that in my head.

Yeah.

--

Rick

The English system is just that, multiple systems. We have a system of Gallons a system of ounces, both for liquid measurement. Most people are no better at converting between the two than they are converting Gal to Liters. 128 oz to a gal, so how many 48 fl oz bottles of canola oil in a gal, how many 17 fl oz bottles of olive oil in a gal??? Damn if I know. Where's the unit conversion calculator? At least they have buttons to convert between English and metric.

Exactly, metric.

How about 8220 ml?

Oh? Lots of things are sold metric and the English units are approx. I have a liter of olive oil on my shelf.

Your distribute drugs?

Butter is marked on the package for easy cutting. If they were 100 or

150 g sticks they would be marked in ml or dl.

So the end of the world is your threshold of action? Wow, you must not do much...

The point is that we *do* have a hodge podge of units. Metric can simplify that greatly.

Oh, how can you make a 12 inch cheese cake when your recipe calls for a

9 inch pan? Oh, I know, you don't because it is too much of a PITA.

--

Rick

I believe the English cup is the same size, it the pint that is 25% larger at 20 oz.

I think you are wrong there, 1.5 oz to a shot is the "official" size.

How do you measure a dash? Do you have a dash spoon, a pinch spoon?

Oh total bs. Lots of people bake from scratch. Don't be silly. You sound like someone's grandmother.

--

Rick

I suspect it is possible in much the same way that folks care not how many oz the package of hamburger buns weighs. Or, how many Cups they'll get out of a 4 lb bag of sugar instead of a 5 lb.

I just don't see the merit in a "partial" solution. We already HAVE that. It doesn't really benefit anyone!

All (well, 99.9623%) roadside "speed limit" signs are owned and maintained by governmental agencies. Cars have had dual unit speedometers for AGES! The gummit could legislate AND "bear the cost" of converting all those signs -- why not?

I.e., converting gas pumps to metric units could have an objection from those businesses that operate the gas pumps: "an undue burden on us!" (yeah, right!) Fine, what's the argument for AGAINST the gummit unilaterally undertaking the replacement of those roadside signs? By now, I doubt the number of vehicles on the road with "english only" speedometers could be counted in some small number of epsilons! Grant them a waiver!

But people can relate qts to gallons.

Even as used in "dry measure", people expect a "5 gallon shrubery" (sold at a nursery) to be many times larger than a "1 gallon shrub". (I've not verified the 5:1 relationship -- though realize their idea of a "1 gallon pot" is laughable! (maybe *half* of a gallon, liquid measure?)

Yes. People don't think about engine sizes. Do you know how much volume your engine displaces? I know I found the adoption of metric measures there saved me lots of frustration: do I have a 302 in this car or a 305? Or, was the *last* car a 302? Now, it's just "5 liters" :>

Note that prescription meds are often distributed in metric units while OTC often in traditional ones. No doubt, easier to ask a mother to give her child 2 tsp of cough syrup than to expect her to be able to determine a dosage expressed as a metric qty.

Diabetics are familiar with metric units of measure (mg/dL). As are hypertensives (mm-Hg). But, to these folks, those are just "abstract numbers"... what other items do they encounter that are expressed in those units (mg/dL, mm-Hg)? Just as meaningless as, e.g., an A1c "number" (that only has merit against some relative scale that their MD presents)

We've already got a shitload of "units". ADDING more surely isn't going to make things any easier! Something (undoubtedly a "monied interest") interrupted the adoption of metric units, here. As a *kid*, I can recall working on cars and memorizing "near equivalents" (so I could use my traditional wrenches instead of buying an entire set of metric ones...

12mm ~= 1/2", etc.). That wasn't YEARS ago but SCORES of years ago!

(snip)

As noted before, the duty free alcohol import limit is 1L.

There might be many that have a scientific basis. Polution limits, and other chemical quantities might be metric. (Then again, they are othen ppm or ppb, I suppose those are metric fractions.)

-- glen