Hi there,
does anyone here know whether these old Intel 8748/8749 PICs are still available anywhere? Germany preferred. And, is there any more modern PIC ou there which is code and pin compatible to this old PIC?
Please advise.
TIA Joachim
You might be able to find some ancient used or NOS ones around, but they have not been manufactured for nigh onto a decade.
I don't think so. You'll have to re-write the code, which shouldn't be such a big deal for 1K or 2K of object code. The 8051 series is the most similar currently available family, but it doesn't have the same pinout.
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
-- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
8748/8749 are microcontrollers. PIC is a name more usually refering to any/all uC devices from Microchip.
You can still buy 8748/8749, a quick web search shows a number on
- but probably not with a RoHS certificate :)
I do not know of any FLASH uC that is 8048 opcode compatible, the
89C51 (very widely available) is a good superset, but you will need to re-assemble the code, and re-code portions of it. Pin compatible you would do with a small PCB, and an SMD 89C51 variant.-jg
Hi there,
first of all thanks a mil for the both responses I got so far.
Quick question in addition: Seems I have a I²C next to the Intel
8748/8749 microcontroller on the PCB of my garage door opener. Hmmm, unfortunately the I²C´s type isn´t readable at all. Well, do you happen to have any idea which I²C components were preferrably used in conjunction with a 8748/8749 microcontroller?TIA Joachim
Count the pins, and determine which are Vcc/Gnd/SCL/SDA, and then look at Philips web site - common candiates would be i2c Clocks (8 pins) IO expanders (not sure if a garage door opener would _need_ IO expansion ? ) or maybe an ADC device....
-jg
-- snip --
AFAIK "PIC" is a generic name which stands for "Programmable Interface Controller". Microchip just used it for their line of parts, because that's what they were designed to do.
Some historian (or someone who was there at the time) would have to double-check my recollection.
-- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/ "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Generic? Not if AZ Microchip have any say about it---
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
-- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
OK. "Was".
-- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com Posting from Google? See http://cfaj.freeshell.org/google/ "Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" came out in April. See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
Close, but not quite. The original (c1975) part from General Instruments was called a "Peripheral Interface Controller", and it was mask NMOS. It was smaller than most cores at the time, and was one of the first out the gate, as an EPROM part, because the die impact was less. The parts became one of the drivers of the shift to EPROM for production devices. Microchip now tag everything they make a PIC, even tho the "Peripheral Interface Controller" hardly applies to the newest parts. Helps with branding, and bragging rights.
-jg
Once I was asked if I can work with the PIC controllers made by AVR. Literally. Of course what they meant was Atmel AVR.
Vladimir Vassilevsky
DSP and Mixed Signal Design Consultant
Here we have two independant examples of Generic use of 'PIC', so does that mean Microchip looses copyright protection, as it appears to have passed into general (mis)use ? :)
-jg
Right here, your articles are missing a proper sig delimiter, which is exactly "-- " alone on a line. Possibly you are failing to configure Netscape properly, with a separate sig file? You are also failing to preserve attributions for quoted material. These trivial things make it easier for all.
--
"A man who is right every time is not likely to do very much."
-- Francis Crick, co-discover of DNA
"There is nothing more amazing than stupidity in action."
-- Thomas Matthews
My first exposure to the term 'PIC' was with the Intel 8259. And that was in 1981, I think. Of course, my experience doesn't prove that 'PIC' might not have been used elsewhere -- and Microchip chips were only used in things like rice cookers before they made the decision to start selling them to smaller quantity buyers and finally and gradually opened their hands on the information spigot the last half of the 1980's.
(Note: I couldn't use the link that Spehro offered at USPTO.)
Jon
I just checked my 1991 copy of Intel's 8-bit embedded controllers book (yes, sadly, my earlier copies are probably lost in some boxes somewhere deep in my 'Raider's of the Lost Arc' warehouse) and don't find the use of 'PIC' associated with the 8748/8749. This makes me wonder if PIC was a term they used and later dropped??
Now that I'm looking.... whatever happened to the nifty 8243 I/O expander? Is it dead?
Jon
Ark..
The OP must be wondering what the hell you all are talking about.
To the OP:
No, you can not get a modern controller chip that will drop into an 874x socket.
Making a chip adapter that will follow the correct pin out (i.e. power, crystal, etc) would first need to be done.
Code for the 874x can only run on a 874x. There is no other way.
Good Luck
You will need it.
Donald
PS: If you would like to discuss the differences between an 874x and any moder controller chip, please ask again.
PPS: To ask such a question, you must be looking to give a legacy product new life. After working on a 68hc11 legacy product last October (assembly code) I would say , it better be worth a lot of money to both the customer and the manufacture. It would be cheaper to redesign the system with a modern controller chip in mind.
"PIC" sounds to me like Peripherals Interface Controller, which were implemented with discrete 74xx ICs or TTL bit slice processors (or even just state machines).
Paul
Not really, I gave a reply similar to yours, less than an hour after the OP posted. The rest is musings on history
I also pointed out that the nearest controller is the 80C51 family. You can port 8048 code to an 8051 with a moderate amount of effort. We even did some 80C51 macros years ago, to make this even easier. Mostly the 80C51 is a superset. Peripheral control differs.
It is not clear the OP has code, from his subsequent question it rather sounds as tho he is trying to fix an old garage door opener.
*That* PIC is/was "Programmable Interrupt Controller". Different kettle of worms. Microchip seems to stick the RT on PIC every time they use it, and my understanding is that their legal department is on anybody who uses it *commercially* without permission like a Doberman on a steak.
P.S. A more disputed question is what exactly PIC originally stood for. IIRC, there are at least two competing claims, each with some merit. The current answer is that it doesn't stand for anything.
Re USPTO:
Here's the record that my (apparently expired) search found:
Word Mark PIC Goods and Services IC 009. US 021. G & S: Electrical Apparatus-Namely, Integrated Circuit Chips. FIRST USE: 19760600. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19760600 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Design Search Code Serial Number 73264319 Filing Date June 2, 1980 Current Filing Basis 1A Original Filing Basis 1A Published for Opposition August 18, 1981 Registration Number 1176995 Registration Date November 10, 1981 Owner (REGISTRANT) General Instrument Corporation CORPORATION DELAWARE 767 FIFTH AVENUE NEW YORK NEW YORK 10153
(LAST LISTED OWNER) MICROCHIP TECHNOLOGY INCORPORATED CORPORATION BY ASSIGNMENT, BY ASSIGNMENT, BY CHANGE OF NAME, BY CHANGE OF NAME, BY ASSIGNMENT DELAWARE 2355 WEST CHANDLER BLVD. CHANDLER ARIZONA 85224 Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED Attorney of Record BRADLEY W. GROUT Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Affidavit Text SECT 15. SECT 8 (6-YR). SECTION 8(10-YR) 20020219. Renewal 2ND RENEWAL 20020219 Live/Dead Indicator LIVE
Best regards, Spehro Pefhany
-- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" speff@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Perhaps. I'm generally ignorant of detailed law and particularly ignorant of trademark law. Is the use of PIC a transgression of Microchip's trademark use, if it means "programmable interrupt controller?" In other words, does Microchip claim the use of PIC? or PIC® a violation of Microchip's trademark, even when a word is changed?
I've no idea.
Do you mean ? or ®? (If the symbols survive to your viewer.)
Odd.
So then Microchip would hold that Intel's use was/is infringing, since they bought or became Microchip from General Instruments and owned the term as early as 1976?
It's not clear to me.
Thanks!
Jon
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