IEE or IEEE

Not necessarily.

It is continuous review that incrementally improves the quality of standards ... and can also cause bloat.

--
Mike Page BEng(Hons) MIEE           www.eclectic-web.co.uk
Quiet! Tony's battling the forces of conservatism, whoever we are.

I learned the basics on heavy gauge soldering (repairing some mechanical item) when I was about 8 years old. It took some to lift that soldering iron. My son learnt to solder electronic components when he was 9 (building his own robot kit). He is still proud of that thing.

An engineer with kids of his own should be passing on such knowledge anyway.

--
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Alas, that's nothing the EE courses at university have any influence over (setting aside those Wunderkinds that start university at the age of 11 or so...), do they?

It's important to distinguish between what might be called "natural born engineers", and those who only entered engineering because they thought it was cool, well-paid, easy, or whatever. While it may take serious threat of failing their lab exercises to get the latter anywhere near a soldering iron, it would usually take similar measures to keep the others *away* from it, if anyone were silly enough to try. My personal definition of "natural born engineer" would be something like "can't get himself to throw anything technical away without at least taking it apart, but typically will actually attempt a repair first".

[...]

Well, I guess that's actually replaced by serious console gaming and learning all the characteristics of the entire collection of Pok'emon, these days ;-(

--
Hans-Bernhard Broeker (broeker@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

That's partly it, but a large part of it is also that when I were a lad evan an AM radio cost a relatively large amount, even to my parents, in proportion to the other household budget. That made it cost effective as well as fun to build a crystal set as a kid. Also, at the time, AM radio was as good as it gets, so you could get pretty much as good performance as your typical portable set by adding a couple of transistors and a speaker.

These days, radio is at least FM and increasingly digital, and in general the level of technology (CDs, PCs, DVDs) in the home is so advanced and cheap that you can't do much that doesn't look silly in comparison. That makes it hard to get kids interested at the level of wanting to make something.

Also, it's expensive for a kid. Most of my early components were free, because they were cut from old chassis and the like. Nothing in modern electronics is reusable, so you have to buy stuff from new.

--
Trevor Barton

That is criminal.

Did they give any reason?

Ian

--
Ian Bell

I got my BSEE in 1972. There have been very few changes since, with math, circuit theory, and even electronics (in the context that I deal with). The "practical" stuff we studied was pretty much centered around vacuum tubes.

I've had to learn a lot of new stuff, and that's what keeps it fun!

But even the vaccum tube stuff is of some use (repairing my guitar amp).

-Hershel Roberson

And both my daughters can solder and safely change a mains plug (which is more than their husbands can do - shouldn't this stuff be taught in schools along side such things as basic cooking and how to write a cheque?)

Ian

--
Ian Bell

True in tother fields too. I was into amateur radio in ny teens in the 60s and everybody built all their kit. 20 years later and it is all shop bought stuff.

Ian

--
Ian Bell

[...]

Its more expensive in some areas, but insanely cheaper in others. I'm still amazed that I can go to Dick Smith (a very common Australian electronics store) and buy a computer on an 8 pin chip for under 5 bucks. If I'm willing to wait a little while, I can order a better chip over the internet for under 2 bucks. How expensive would that have been twenty years ago?

cheers,

Al

That rather heavily depends on the country you're in, I think. It boils down to answering another question first, before it makes sense to attack the "should it be taught?" one: are people even supposed to try doing that?

E.g. here in Germany, shops weren't supposed to sell 2-pole plugs (without PE) as spare parts to the general public, and it's effectively forbidden to sell any devices without molded-on-the-cable

3-pole plugs. In effect, there's not supposed to be a need for any layperson to be futzing around with 240 Volts AC plugs, so neither is there a need to teach this stuff at school.

That said, the more responsible physics teachers *will*, of course, include a lecture on the topic in their courses, but it's essentially a "what you should *not* do" lecture, not a how-to one.

--
Hans-Bernhard Broeker (broeker@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

I got my degree in 1973. We were the first year to be taught transistors instead of valves. The lecturers were so inexperienced at this that they taught us the Beta barrier method straight from the pages of the current Wireless World.

Ian

--
Ian Bell

It is pretty much the same here in the UK where mains plugs are supposed to be fitted to all new products. However, selling spare manins plugs is quite legal and every major hardware shop sells them.

Ian

--
Ian Bell

Aahh, Tricky Dickys, I remember it well, I had to go all the way into Sydney centre from Carlingford in my teens before they opened the store in Paramatta. There was an article in Electronics Australia (?) at the time about Dick having ordered some metal boxes with the dimensions in cm, and them coming back from the manuacturer in inches, doh.

So they're still going, then? There are very few hobbyist stores here in the UK, although people can order from Farnell and RS, but the only browsable store I know if is Maplins here in Leeds. Back in the 70's there used to be a lot (relatively speaking) of "corner" electronics stores both here and in Oz - there was another somewhere in Paramatta which sold all sorts (transistors, passives, etc) out of bins in the back. Even Tandy used to sell bits, albeit at well over the top prices and in bubble-packs of 20, do they still do that?

That's another reason for the yoof of today not getting into electronics, difficulty of finding parts.

--
Trevor Barton

They aren't.

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Did you move a lot
                                  at               of KOREAN STEAK KNIVES this
                               visi.com            trip, Dingy?

My 17 year old daughter can solder and install a printer on a computer. I wished I could get her to check the air in her tires on a regular basis.

Grant Edwards wrote in news:416d51e7$0$21789$a1866201 @newsreader.visi.com:

I don't doubt for a moment that on average, CS degreed applicants are far less likely to have a clue about embedded systems, you just have to look at their employment history as well in order to make the decision as to whether to bother interviewing them or not. Fresh out of college, no question, EE would be likely to be better.

--
Richard

And Computer Engineering would be even better.

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  OVER the
                                  at               underpass! UNDER the
                               visi.com            overpass! Around the FUTURE
                                                   and BEYOND REPAIR!!

Is there such a thing? Does it exist or is it common in the UK? What does it mean?

Ian

--
Ian Bell

[...]

My alma mater (in the US) offers the degree, though they didn't when I was a student there. From

"As a computer engineering student, you'll study both computer science and electrical engineering topics, and learns how hardware and software interact with each other, how to make hardware/software trade-offs, and how to combine all of these technologies into a complete system. With this knowledge base, the computer engineer is uniquely qualified to conceive, design, build, program, and test innovative hardware/software systems to solve a wide variety of scientific and engineering problems."

[OK, the web page author needs to brush up on subject-verb agreement, but you get the idea...]

I believe it was added to accomodate the growing number of students who were studying for degrees in both CS and EE. Sounds fairly useful.

I can't speak for the UK...

Regards,

-=Dave

--
Change is inevitable, progress is not.