IEE or IEEE

In article , Stefan writes

No question IEE. This is UK based. It can get you C.Eng which will become more important (possibly essential) during your working life. Also it can get you the Euri. Ing which will become more important as Europe haromonises.

The IEE has recently had a major overhaul which then resulted in an overhaul of it's publications.

The IEEE is primarily US though it is international. It can't get you C.Eng etc The magazines used to be better that the IEE but the IEE is catching up fast.

In short if you are going to work in the USA join the IEEE if you are going to work in the UK /Europe go for the IEE and get C.Eng. You will need it (eventually) anyway.

For the record I am a Member of both IEE and IEEE.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org

I say go for the IEEE. Not only do they cover all branches of electronics engineers but they also help computer science people. Plus you get a really cool magazine!

My opinion of them might be a little biased tho since I am a member of the IEEE and a former treasurer at our Uni's student branch. (our website

I sincerely hope it will never become really important.

Ditto.

Not before time.

I hope this prediction is wrong. C.Eng has never had any real meaning in the electronics field and unless the requirements are subject to a major overhaul it never will be IMHO.

For the record I am a member of neither and have never been asked if I was in any interview, nor has it ever been a job requirement in embedded work.

Ian

Really? What for? Surely not real engineering - management perhaps.

I sincerely hope not. C.Eng is most certainly not any indicator of management ability; in my experience it is quite the opposite.

Ian

There's not the vaguest doubt that within a few years, almost all forms of activity will require you to be "registered" in some way. Everything from loo attendants to high court judges. It's the EC's mania for regulation that will drive it, and no government so far (including Th****er's) has given a toss as long as they aren't personally affected. I hope to be well retired or dead by the time this comes about.

Paul Burke

I also tend to doubt the forecast. While they are trying to standardize the schools and the degrees, these are clearly snapshots of the beginning of the career. Whatever comitee or union, is not telling anything except that you shelled a few bucks out.

Anyone whishing to standardize engineering in practise, has first to standardize the problems to be solved. He he ..

Rene

Of course they'll be personally affected. You don't think there's room in Brussels or Strasburg for all our MPs do you? Something like 580 of them will be out of a job if power fully transfers. But most shrewd commentators give the EU 50 years at most, the only question being will it go out with a bang (ie civil war) or a whimper. The latter looks more likely now that the constitution is on the rocks and people are starting to exercise democracy and vote for nationalist parties, including the UKIP.

Hi Ian,

Fully agree. The more regulation and red tape the more this will drive business out of your country.

Yes. That would be the start of the demise of engineering in Europe. Should they really begin to force such bureaucratic red tape and effectively disenfranchise older engineers who cannot for whatever reason achieve that title you could go after them for age discrimination. In the US that would put a lid on it rather quickly.

Regards, Joerg

Usually they find a way to grandfather it so it only affects the youngsters to any great degree. My wife started out in her field before there were any specific university degrees or professional certification. She ended up have to pay some thousands of dollars to take some courses that she was qualified to teach (and indeed had taught most of), but it wasn't really that big a deal. It always impresses clients when she can tell them what the intent of a paragraph of a standard was because she wrote that part of it! ;-)

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

Hi Spehro,

Depends on timing though. In the US some states require you to have a PE license to do engineering. Some have an industry exemption to get around that, some don't. Needless to say, no ten horses would drag me into the latter ones. Here is the crux: If you didn't take the FE test way back when because your university didn't have it and none of the profs told you about it, forget it. No admission. Remember when officials told people it would be good and broaden their horizon to study overseas? Nice shot in the back. Now they can't sit for the PE exam. Then some states want your degree to be from an ABET certified curriculum. Not many of those when I got my masters in the 80's. That alone can already be construed as age discrimination.

Then you have to get ref letters from three or more PEs under whom you worked. Great, I never even met one. Some states allow regular engineers as bosses to write the letters. Well, what if you worked for a guy who was a very good manager but didn't have a degree? What if you were the VP of Engineering or something like that and your boss would have been a financial guy?

Once I glanced over some exam sample questions. They had nothing at all to do with what I am doing now. Questions like "How many members does the license board have?". Really important stuff....

What good does this kind of regulation do? I am not against registration per se but I oppose all these needless hurdles. After all, a hard earned degree from a reputable university is what makes a great engineer and not some eight-hour test.

Regards, Joerg

I thought that relevent experience, appropriate knowledge and the urge to explore things much deeper than the shiny product box went in to making a great engineer.

Before I left school I was always tinkering with old radios, electric train sets, Mecano, Lego, and a whole range of other materials, to construct wonderful items. Great engineers have more than just their academic learning behind them. They also have a practical bent.

Hi Paul,

Absolutely agree. I was only pointing out the difference between 4-6 years of hard learning to achieve a degree versus an eight hour test by some bureaucracy.

Same here. My favorite day was "large appliance pickup" by our disposal company. As a kid I'd scurry around and haul huge TVs back home, on the baggage rack of my bicycle. The hardest part was pushing all this up our steep hill. Then I either repaired them or parted them out and built something else. That is how I really learned electronics. The university was to get the MSEE. They gave us a good dose of math which helps a lot but the electronics stuff taught in the later semesters was mostly deja vu to me.

Regards, Joerg

I never thought age discrimination could prove so useful. It becomes law here in the UK sometime in 2006 I think and could prove a useful tool in combating the more stupid forms of bureaucracy. I never quite understood what was wrong with picking the best person for the job.

Ian

Hi Ian,

It is law already in the US. Sometimes it is abused but when it comes to bureacratic follies it might become the silver bullet if you ever have to go to the mat. So you should be in good shape over there since two years is a short time. The way it goes here is you either mention it and everybody retracts right away or you sue after they hit you with something. Neither is nice but it's good to know which rights we have. The real blow in the US is class action. So if, say, some regulation discriminates and is nevertheless held up, you get about a half dozen folks in similar situations together which makes whoever is on the defensive really shake in their boots.

Regards, Joerg

I think all real engineers like this. I joined the local radio amateurs club in my teens (this was in the days before transistors were commonplace) and scrounging parts from old/dead hardware was the norm. The club secretary said he had some old TV sets I could have. I went round to his house and he took me out into his back garden where to my astonishment there was a pile of old TV chassis at least three metres high!

Ian

In article , Joerg writes

Where to?

there is already licensing in many parts of the world including the USA and Australia.

Not SO. In Several states in the US there is licensing.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org

You can't use the age discrimination on this one. There is more than one route to C.Eng. As it happens the licensing in the US is more difficult to get than C.Eng

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org

No... for real engineering. Managers are something different. As with the US this is aimed more at the safety critical/embedded end of things.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/\ /\/\/ snipped-for-privacy@phaedsys.org