Which school did you go to? My experienece is that there's a large variation in whether any given department has new or old equipment and software. Where I went to school, the PCs were quite shiney (and there we LOTS of them spread around campus), we had 20" flat panel monitors, the PC software was generally up-to-date, etc. However, the UNIX boxes -- that were still used for many graduate-level engineering courses -- were pretty long in the tooth and ran quite out-of-date versions of HSPICE and Cadence's IC design tools. Some labs had quite new equipment, whereas others still had "boat anchor" oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers, etc. that had *tubes* in them (this last bit probably says more about the departmental professors and their ability to obtain funding than the school itself, though).
I agree 100% (although note that some engineers are able to pull this off without formal instruction).
Yeah sure ;) I am an alumnus of a certain Ivy League school whose founder is quoted BY STUDENTS as saying "I *would* found an _INSTITUTION_."
I must be an alumnus. The Alumni Association kept trying to get money from me. "Alumnus" denotes attendance NOT graduation. Give my regards to Davy, remember me to Tee Fee Crane. Tell all the pikers on the hill that I'll be back again.
The alumni association of the Unversity of Vermont has created a membership class for those born in the veteran's trailer park (actually in the hospital up the hill) on campus during the years following WWII. The park was located in a parking lot for the baseball stadium.
The salary tables show that "usually" which is to say on average it IS the case. It's pretty hard to somehow discount all those future years at a salary higher than the average person without the degree and say that somehow a higher salary for all those years "amortized" over a lifetime will be less!
However, we are talking about PEOPLE and LIFE here! What happens on average may not be what happens to you! So "maybe so, maybe no" has validity. And more important than that is how one FEELS about various things. If you hate classwork and school life, trying to force yourself to do more is probably not going to be very successful for you.
I don't think getting an MS has ANYTHING to do with job-related knowledge! Contrary to some misconceptions among freshman, they do NOT teach you how to solder or design stereo amplifiers at college. It has to do with credentials and a demonstration of energy and self- discipline (which obviously you didn't have) Maybe doing a thesis would have helped you learn to spell "quit". Same thing goes for an MBA. I doubt you'll find anything there that will really make you a business whiz. But in the corporate bureaucracy it's a badge and a key to a number of things. It's symbolic in many ways, but sometimes symbols are important. (especially in politics).
True. But every little bit helps.
(who had rich and influential parents!)
You mean if your goals are financial, go into politics. But generally speaking, this is not an option for most engineers who have any engineering skills at all. Politics and the law are usually best left for those who have the social and speaking (lying) skills. Engineers usually have the social skills of a paperweight.
Engineer joke. Girl is at party. Meets this good-looking guy. Tries to strike up a conversation with him. Nothing! Can't seem to get more than a grunt or a single word out of him. She gives up and continues circulating. Pretty soon she comes back to where the guy is standing by the punch bowl and takes him by the hand. "Follow me!" she says, And leads him outside to where another good looking guy is sitting on the edge of the fountain. "You two guys should get to know one another!" she says, and stomps off. The two of them sit there saying absolutely nothing for maybe 20 minutes. Finally one of them says to the other: " So, what motherboard are you using?" :)
Take that $150-$200K, plus interest, for the two years in school, add in any loans required to pay for school, and run the real numbers. IME, a shiny MS pays about the same as a BS with two years experience, or less. IMO, a MS is worthless by itself. As a stepping-stone to a PhD, fine.
Of course. Plumbing is a fine career too.
I didn't say that you learn how to solder better in MS school!
No I didn't mean that, or I would have said it. Since we're obviously ignoring ethics; if you want to make real money become a lawyer and buy a politician.
Can you please stop posting this rubbish? Do you not know how to use UseNet? Attachments, especially large ones, are not considered acceptable in not binary newsgroups. Why must the whole world download it. You clearly knew what you were doing since you put a warning in the subject, bt that doesn't make it any more acceptable.
I doubt anyone is reading this thread anymore, but I can't let the posts that are marginalizing formal education stand. Maybe it's cognitive dissonance that I don't want to admit I've wasted time/money in school, but I think it's more some of these comments smack of the "I don't need no schoolin'" attitude you hear from 16 year old dilinquents. Growing up in the American school system there was always a bunch of chuckle heads deriding and teasing the students who studied. I'll guarantee that our Indian and Chinese competitors/friends aren't debating the value of graduate school!
During my continuing education over the last several years I've
coded an e-commece site based on an open source CMS but heavily customized with PHP scripting
designed a microwave filter using coax sections and plotted the response on a Smith chart
coded a 3-d rendering engine in verilog and simulated with synplicity
performed bch ecc syndrome and error correction by hand
wrote an algorithm in matlab to find the shortest path through a graph
and a lot more, all of which I've been able to incorporate to varying degrees in my day job. We use vhdl at work, now I know some verilog. I set up a web site on the intranet for engineering to communicate. And so on.
I don't know that the piece of paper matters in the big picture but certainly the knowledge and experience does. If someone can show me a job where the products are so eclectic as to require all these different fields please send me an application.
I didn't say $150K (perhaps $200K) was the cost of the education, rather the opportunity cost. One could have spent that two years in industry making real $$.
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