Embedded Software Engineers, needed in Seattle

I have a reasonably inexpensive per minute plan. The vast majority of land line dialup users have unlimited plans.

You can complain and attempt to socially engineer people all you want. It's totally ineffective. Most of us have other fish to fry. So we go for the solutions that actually work. Yes, I have read plain old paper books while waiting for OS installs, long compiles, and the like. I often get up and play with my dog.

You can knock yourself out any way you want, for all I care. I just think you're totally silly, thinking you're going to change the spammers with your grousing. Do you want solutions or do you just want to complain? The cron suggestion is quite apart from spammers. There's tons of legit posts in this forum that you'll still have to download. The spam is small potatoes. Also, the complaints about the spam greatly exceed the length of the spam itself.

news.net-abuse does, if you actually care to find out.

I find such a stance reactionary.

They aren't focused on the embedded market.

Because at any given time, the majority is employed. When you are in the minority some day, you'll feel differently about having quality job resources available to you.

Cheers, Brandon Van Every

Reply to
Brandon J. Van Every
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If there is any number, call them collect. Make it cost them.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
Reply to
CBFalconer

Generally people are interested in jobs offered, not jobs wanted.

So you have a data sample of 1 person. Meanwhile, someone lurking here might actually get a job by responding to the original post in this thread.

No, I'm the only person willing to waste time on the issue after my return from the dog park. I'm sure the people who don't feel threatened by "evil job posters" have better things to do. I value social conditioning - often a mistake on Usenet. I can't get everyone to see it my way, but I can plant seeds. If you hear the same message from 100 other people, you might change your tune someday.

I moderate

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I co-created
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I have a long history of participating in forums that can handle commercial and job posts.

The odd thing is that techies scream about job posts, until someone makes a rule that says job posts are actually allowed. Then the techies become oddly quiet about it. The (legitimate) job posts don't actually change - same before as after. So what were the techies complaining about in the 1st place? What is the big threat they're so worried about? The headhunters are generally much more socially skilled and diplomatically nuanced than the techies. They see minding their P's and Q's as part of their profession, something they do to make money. They see grousing at people as counter-productive to their goals.

Meanwhile, nobody likes spam. There's a difference between a legitimate, focused job post in a given segment of industry, and spam. There are productive ways to deal with spam and contain it. Grousing is not one of them.

Cheers, Brandon Van Every

Reply to
Brandon J. Van Every

What about wasting one's own time on mostly pointless threads? I mean, if internet time is *that* dear to someone, I think they'll probably be logging on and off quickly, to secure what they actually need.

Let's be honest: how much does anyone do Usenet for productivity, and how much for entertainment? I do sometimes post things I want / would like / could use answers for. It's a method of last resort, after I've Googled, RTFMed, hacked, etc.

Cheers, Brandon Van Every

Reply to
Brandon J. Van Every

If you really think it is ok to post that sort of ad here, how would you feel if the hundreds of embedded jobs across the country were posted here on a regular basis? Say it were only 40 ads a day? That would not be the same as 40 regular posts since they typically are in a smaller number of threads. That would be 40 new threads every day. I expect that would swamp the group and create a lot of frustration to regular readers of this group.

If this type of posting is encouraged, do you really think this is unlikely?

How about you create a newsgroup for these posts instead of supporting the spamming of this group by unwanted ads???

If you would read the posts instead of making up what you seem to think we are saying, then you might have the answer. I and others have said it several times, if you let some ads in, then others are likely to follow. I guess the groups that have been taken over by advertisers didn't go that way gradually, they just all at once happened?

Read above!

Man, you don't know many. I find them to mostly have poor people skills, likely because they are relatively new to the profession. I have never met one that had been in the business for more than a handfull of years or that actually knew what an applicant wanted or needed. They focus on their customer's needs and treat the applicant like a piece of meat. Not people skill, supermarket skills, a sure sign of inexperience!

Yes, there is a difference... YOU don't mind reading an ad for an embedded engineering ad. To the rest of us they are still a nuisance.

Reply to
rickman

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Things are changing , people who want jobs must go talk in person , not advertize .

College degrees are less today . I have no paper , but im an EE , .... can show them first hand how i design electronics , and i get the job , today ...

Dont waste your time studying how to get jobs , study how to DO jobs ...

That said , the changes in the future are going to be so fast , it really wont make any dfference for those unemployed today ...

In 4 years , the USA will have 70 million unemployable . Did you know high unemployed means much lower crime ? 1933 !!! , 300% less crime than 1926 , We built the best airplane ever DC-3 ..

We dont produce , we dont export , they are buying our stuff , tax dollars are simply subsidizing P4's and Chevys ,

so you see it wont matter what you do , there will be no jobs of any kind , at any wage .... But thats good .... for me ! I dont want/need a job . Im not a liberal ..

Now for econ 101 .

1 ) it is essential to push factories off shore to maintain profits . else owners cant compete . When owners cant compete , they take their money and live in Spain ...

It is impossible to manufacture and pay employees to live same standard of living as owner , We do that in America ...... Your idea dont work Mr Reagan

Employees must live where they work . else factory owner cant compete .

Reply to
werty

Which groups are for job announcements? I've never found one that would cover the sort of jobs that would be of interest to the posters in this group.

Reply to
Tom Lucas

I find usenet a great help. I also use it as a last resort to actively ask questions, but just by reading threads generated by other sensible questions, one learns new things which is helpful later on. Many times I have been able to help a colleague who have been battling with something with some small little thing I have learned on this news group.

Regards Anton Erasmus

Reply to
Anton Erasmus

Heck, everyone talks about it like you have to have a problem to solve in order to learn anything here. This is continuing education to me. I read and post here just to stay ahead of the game.

That is why I would find job posts so obnoxious. I typically spend an hour or more a day reading and posting in these groups. I don't want to have to start weeding through some dozens of recruiter posts.

Reply to
rickman

I think the trend is just the opposite. I got a Masters degree in '81 and found any number of non-degreed EEs in the workforce. Now I see fewer jobs that require a BS and quite a number that require an MS. I see almost no undegreed EEs anymore. The trend seems to be that you need more paper to show you can do the job in part because the job is getting more and more complex.

But certainly there are still jobs that do not require a degree. I expect they are fewer now than there used to be.

Again, more recent data shows a positive coorelation between unemployment and crime, not a negative one.

Hmmm... people do not exist to support the system, the system exists to suppport people. If 70 million are unemployed... well that is the about half of the US workforce, no?

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The system would ceast to exist when people riot in the street. During the "Great Depression" 1 in 4 were out of work and there was talk of rioting.

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At 50% unemployment I expect the economy would break down and we would return to a state of anarchy. So you think this will all happen in 4 years, eh?

Reply to
rickman

Go to the 'subscribe' or equivalent in your newsreader, and search for the word 'jobs' in the newsgroup name. You will probably find at least hundreds. Most are probably useless.

A better bet is probably your state employment office (USA centric), which usually maintains some pages with current job openings listed and a method of getting your offering listed.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
Reply to
CBFalconer

The issue is embedded job listings, not job listings in general.

Cheers, Brandon Van Every

Reply to
Brandon J. Van Every

If each ad actually had a human being attached to it, trying to really fit into the community and make it productive, I don't see any problem at all. Actually that would make c.a.e the most fantastic resource for embedded engineers on the net!

The distiniction is between legitimate recruiters and spammers. Chuck Falconer already outlined the productive course to pursue with spammers.

I have participated in Usenet groups with 300 posts a day. I don't typically frequent them, but when I do, the sky doesn't fall. I don't read 90% of any group, high traffic or not, high signal:noise or not. People talk a lot and most of it isn't worth reading.

I don't support spammers. I make a distinction between spammers and legitimate headhunters, which you don't want to acknowledge as important to the health of a community.

Groups are never "taken over" by spammers. Communities atrophize, and spammers fill the void.

If you are worried about the health of your community, concentrate on the positive aspects of embedded architecture.

Cheers, Brandon Van Every

Reply to
Brandon J. Van Every

You might remember that this is an international group, with people from all over the world. Different countries have different ways of handling job adverts and job seekers - posting an advert in an international forum is an absurd idea for most prospective employers or employees. We (the international c.a.e. community) find these American job adverts arrogant and annoying, and we don't want them here, just as we don't want adverts for sales or services in any one country.

To think that some of these posters have a human behind them who will read replies in the group, or even bother with email replies (other than applicants), is naive in the extreme. I've followed this group for years, and I can count the number of times a recruiter has replied to posts in this group on the fingers of one thumb.

It's a different matter entirely if a regular contributor to the group is looking for an employee - that's like Lewin recommending his books when it is an appropriate answer to a post.

No legitimate recruiter would post in this group by definition - if they are legitimate and responsible, they will have looked at the group before posting, and seen that it is not an appropriate place for adverts.

A headhunter is someone who actually does some work in attempting to find the right person for a job. The right way for a headhunter to use the group is to look at past posts and see that Mr. Van Every is an embedded engineer looking for a job - not to through out an advert.

Groups *do* get taken over, and group communities fall apart, for various reasons. They can be "taken over" by spammers, an overly high ratio of newbies or homework cheats, lots of off-topic discussions, and other causes (as well as simply dying for lack of interest or members). Look at sci.electronics.design - it's a great place for an entertaining political discussion, but if you want help on electronics it can be hard to see the wood for the trees.

Reply to
David Brown

Well it certainly brings up a lot of listings but it would be hard to know where to start looking for embedded jobs, particularly for a newbie who might not know specifically what they were looking for.

I think most people are ware of the standard methods of checking the Job Centre/State Employment Office and the various internet advertisers (jobsite/monster etc) but it would be nice if there was an agreeable method of making use of this community. I, for one, consider it a major plus point if potential engineers are aware of and use c.a.e but when all job postings are banned it is hard to make use of this network.

Reply to
Tom Lucas

If that is your desire maybe you should consider going through the process of creating comp.arch.embedded.jobs for the purpose. You could even aim for comp.arch.embedded.jobs.moderated and keep it under control. There are existing protocols for doing this.

--
Chuck F (cbfalconer at maineline dot net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
Reply to
CBFalconer

If the international job market is so "absurd" then why are you posting in English? Welcome to the global economy.

I just had a recuriter ask me for leads on jobs for Sony Online Entertainment. I'm not sure which forum she noticed my postings. I directed her to my own gamedesign-l, where both job postings and resumes are allowed. Perhaps the reason the recruiters don't respond publically is because the nasty people are a complete waste of their time. That doesn't mean they're not responding, only that they're sending private e-mail to the productive people.

Cheers, Brandon Van Every

Reply to
Brandon J. Van Every

At the risk of sounding obvious, there is just a tinsy little difference between people being happy posting in a non-native language (although for me, English *is* my native language), and considering moving across the world for a job. As with most people here, I'll happily discuss embedded development (and the occasional off-topic thread) with anyone, with a total disregard for where in the world they are. But no amount of money would induce me to answer a job advert for the USA (or for India, the other source of job adverts in this group).

You snipped the part of my post that covered exactly that circumstance - a good recruiter or head-hunter will use newsgroups to help find people, and they post to groups that are used for job-seeking. The people who post to groups like this one are not good at their jobs - that's invariably obvious from the posts.

And if someone posts in this group (job adverts or anything else) and does not read and respond to follow-ups with new posts to the group, then they are *not* responding. I don't care what they do in private email, they are not wanted here in a discussion group. A commercial poster like that is a spammer, no exceptions.

mvh.,

David

Reply to
David Brown

You know, people move across the world for jobs. Strange but true. People also move across very big land masses for jobs, like the entireity of the USA and Canada, or the entire EU.

And I'm going to snip a lot more. This thread is old, and we all know where we stand.

Cheers, Brandon Van Every

Reply to
Brandon J. Van Every

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