Documentation "containers"

The Intro/Installation section describes how to tell Acrobat to use an available media player, if it doesn't pick one automatically.

I've only had the CD for a couple of days, and have only browsed through it, so can't make a fair review. However, I think the videos will be useful, particularly for someone new to CAD-like programs. Seeing him actually use some of the Sketchup tools can clarify the text descriptions.

I'm very familiar with Protel/Altium, and frequently used AutoCad for simple 2D drawings, so some things are intuitive to me - but Sketchup has its own way of doing things, and I've seen comments that familiarity with ACad or similar programs can hinder learning Sketchup to some extent.

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Peter Bennett, VE7CEI  
peterbb (at) telus.net
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Reply to
Peter Bennett
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Insert DVD. Boot. Wait 10 minutes while the original disk image is restored *if* you don't want to worry about the current contents of that disk (i.e., if whatever you installed/evaluated last time was "relatively benign" -- text editor, image processing suite, etc. -- you could opt to just leave it in place until you have a *real* need to restore the "virgin" state of the machine).

[N.B. I already do this with each machine as it makes reinstalls painless AND safeguards against "updates" going missing]

Are you claiming that the host OS/filesystem will experience *no* changes outside of those *within* the guest OS's virtual disk contents when I insert a PCMCIA card, USB device, FW device, PCI cards, etc.?

And, that the guest OS will be able to *effectively* use each of these bits of hardware?

Perhaps the *first* use for these little boxes is to install VirtualBox, VMware, etc. *there* and prove/disprove this claim...

Reply to
Don Y

I see. Apparently Reader offloads the decoding of the video to something *outside* Reader itself.

This means the user can't *just* have Reader (the latest/greatest) installed to view the entire presentation. It's the equivalent of requiring the user to have all of the fonts you've used already installed on his machine to view a (static) document correctly.

Sort of like a kid getting a gift and discovering it also needs *batteries* (which, of course, were carelessly NOT supplied WITH the gift!). Kind of takes some of the enthusiasm out of his receiving it...

I will have to see if there is an equivalent way of "embedding" the decoder in the PDF. Or, consider using simpler animations instead of full-fledged "videos".

Yes, that was what I decided when opting to go beyond a "static" (print) document. It made authoring the text portions of the document considerably easier when I didn't have to worry about how to

*exactly* explain how something moved, or what something sounded like, etc.

I wouldn't doubt that! AutoCAD does many things in a counterintuitive manner. Not that it is *less* efficient but, rather, to a new user, AutoCAD looks "bent". To a seasoned user, something *else* would look "bent"!

Reply to
Don Y

I think you're being somewhat too pessimistic (or something) about this. I'd expect virtually everyone to have _some_ media player on their machine, so the only requirement is that the user may have to tell Acrobat (or Foxit or...) what that player is, and where to find it.

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Peter Bennett, VE7CEI  
peterbb (at) telus.net
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Reply to
Peter Bennett

But the player may not support the particular CODEC used in the video! I was hoping that Acrobat would "standardize" the format of these animations/presentations so that *it* could present THE necessary CODEC. That way, all *I* would have to do is verify there was a version of Reader available for the likely OS's that users would encounter. If there is something *else* that imposes requirements on the playback, then I have to ensure a media player/CODEC exists for each of those OS's, as well (and pray that "Joe's Freeware FOOBAR CODEC" is at least as good as the "Mainstream" CODEC/player that I would expect to be used)

As I said, I'll have to explore this in more detail. It may be that PDF's are the wrong "container"...

Reply to
Don Y

While it won't net you the best possible compression, some approximation of "everyone" supports MPEG-1.

Reply to
Robert Wessel

As probably GIFs, etc. I have to look into how Acrobat massages files imported into the PDF -- does it preserve original encodings or transcode to something else "equivalent", etc.

Likewise, I need to see how scripting is implemented (requiring external helpers -- like JVM?) and whether it might be "more self-contained" to just arrange to do animations programmatically instead of as "canned video".

(or, single-stepped GIFs)

Sheesh! I've had tools that could do this for more than a decade (unportably). Disturbing to see that this functionality hasn't made it into the mainstream in an equivalent form...

Reply to
Don Y

If you already have multiple platforms of PCI, PCMCIA etc based hardware then virtual PCs may not be ideal. USB does seem to work well though IME, using VirtualBox.

VirtualBox works well IME, so you could start there. It's pretty well mannered on Windows anyway, and seems to have not particular issues when I've installed it.

Boo

Reply to
Boo

I've got *lots* of machines :-/ I don't like trying to keep lots of different applications, hardware, etc. "playing nice" on the same machine so I partition things by functionality. E.g., tablet and plotter on CAD station, film/paper scanners and photoprinters on DTP station, ICEs on software development station, etc. It just seems easier to create a "manageable" machine that way (and puts less at risk when/if something "acts up").

For example, if I'm going to a meeting, I'll carry a tablet PC with little more than notes/presentation to act as an electronic etch-a-sketch (far more intuitive user interface than a mouse, especially if others want to sketch something to show you what

*they* are thinking). OTOH, I'd rarely use that sort of device "at home" (too clumsy for the work I do there)

Does VirtualBox hook the USB interrupt so the host OS isn't even aware that a new device has been inserted? I.e., does Windows not even 8see* that I've just plugged in a USB scanner? Or, a USB printer? etc.

OK. I finished a list of applications that I plan on installing on the little boxes. I'll add VirtualBox to the list (*last*, though, so I can back it out without having to redo the complete install) and see what it can/can't do "cleanly".

Reply to
Don Y

First off, if you are testing hardware other than USB devices, then virtualisation won't help you much (VirtualBox has some experimental support for PCI virtualisation, but certainly not enough to give you any help here).

How much an USB device affects the host system depends on the host OS. if you are using Linux as the host OS, then you have no problem. If you insert a USB printer, scanner, memory stick, etc., then most modern Linux desktops will make it available for use automatically - but they will not install the sort of junk you get on Windows, or make any changes to the system. The drivers will already be installed, and the Linux box won't care as you plug things in or out. If the USB device is something non-standard, it won't do anything with it. When you connect the USB device to the VirtualBox machine, it is "unplugged" from the host OS, and "plugged in" to the guest OS. Again, with a Linux host, that won't cause any bother or lead to any changes.

With Windows as the host OS, when you plug in the USB device, the host will try to use it first. That means it will try to find drivers, configure the device, etc. With enough "cancelling" you can minimise the effects, but you can't avoid them entirely - as you say, Windows has a crappy architecture for this sort of thing.

This is one of the (many) reasons why Linux is a better choice of host OS than Windows.

However, even with Windows as the host, the system is quite good, and the great majority of the changes, drivers, installations, muck-ups, etc., involved with the USB device will be in the guests only.

Reply to
David Brown

OK.

I don't run Linux. All *BSD's, Solaris and various incarnations of Windows.

Regardless, I'm not talking about generic things like "mass storage devices", "generic printers", etc. Rather, things like *specific* printers (making *all* of their functionality available -- like front panel displays, built in scanners, wifi adapters, etc.), film/paper scanners (and their feeders), DSL/cable/telco modems, colorimeters, etc.

Often, some *crude* support for some *portion* of the device is available on a non-Windows OS -- but, big portions of the device (i.e., most of the "value added" functionality) is ONLY supported on Windows. Often, on just a particular VERSION of windows.

The folks I know who *do* run Linux (mostly Ubuntu and Debian) confirm this "lack of support", there. I.e., it doesn't do me much good if the host OS is "kind" to the device if it doesn't *support* it! :<

A list of some of the things in my "toy box":

- Motorola SBV5220 SURFboard Cable Modem (will Linux let me see the state of the two removable backup batteries? Will Asterisk support the VoIP features?)

- Linksys/Cisco RTP300 Broadband Router w/ 2 phone ports (again, what VoIP support do I get?)

- Symbol SPT1733 Pocketable Computer w/ Wireless WAN (Will the "server end" of the support tools run under Linux -- wirelessly *or* via (slow) serial port? Is the SDK supported, there?)

- Various USB Wireless a/b/g/n adapters (the obvious question)

- USB microphones

- M-Audio MobilePre USB (think of it as an external sound card with XLR inputs, support for phantom power, etc. -- what audio capture/processing tools will work with it? And, will they *really* work? Or, just "almost/sorta" work?)

- Creative SoundBlaster Extigy (similar to above -- will I be able to use the optical I/O's?)

- TASCAM US-122L (as above)

- ULinx USOTL4 RS422/485 Serial Adapter (will the multidrop capability be supported?)

- D-Link i2eye Broadband VideoPhone (which video conferencing features, if any, will be supported?)

- SlingBox SB100 (is there a "SlingPlayer" equivalent available?)

- Fujitsu DynaMO 640 Pocket (will I be able to read, write, eject and *format* media?)

- Ricoh 5060E 1.3GB (same as above)

- PinnacleMicro Vertex 2.6GB (same as above)

- Nikon LS-2000 scanner (will it automatically advance to the next frame when using the motorized film scanner?)

- HP 7490C scanner (will it support the ADF? will the front panel display and controls work?)

- UMAX PowerLook 2100XL large format scanner (does it include color calibration software?)

- Ambir DocketPort 665 (will it even *see* this small scanner?)

- Lexmark S605 All-in-one (in addition to the scanner and printer, will it let me configure the WiFi adapter therein? Access the same front panel features?)

- Logitech NuLOOQ "puck" (which motion control features will it not support?)

- SpaceBall 4000FLX (recognized? driver hook?)

- Epson EMP-835 Projector (can I control the projector remotely?)

- eBeam EB3-1U whiteboard scanner (can I see whiteboard activity in real-time?)

- Dazzle DVC150 (can I capture and synthesize live video/audio?)

- Sony VRD-VC10 (as above; can I write DL discs?)

- ColorVision Spyder "colorimeter" (driver?)

- ActivCard smartcard reader (PCMCIA)

- Other media types (MO, SuperDisk, ORB, VXA, DAT, DLT, etc.)

- Keyboard wedges (MICR, magstripe, barcode, etc)

- whatever new gizmo a client wants me to deal with *tomorrow*

All of which are supported by Windows. I'm no "fan" of Windows. OTOH, if that's where device manufacturers are speding their support dollars, I'm pretty much stuck running it (on at least some of my machines :< )

[I'm not interested in "Oh, supports device" unless also supports ALL of the above :< ]

And, that assumes the applications that use these devices will run "effectively" with less physical memory, etc.

"Foreign" OS's usually don't support lots of things. Emulation just doesn't cut it, IME. There's *always* something that doesn't quite work right. I'm not interested in "free software" if I'm spending thousands of dollars of time chasing down "fixes" and wondering why some feature doesn't quite work right (who do you call? what do they *care* about your problem?)

Exactly. Windows thinks it is the center of the universe. And, application/driver developers FOR windows have the same attitude! Things run/install with elevated privilege -- that don't *need* to. Things clobber/hijack preexisting settings/configurations without even *telling* you that they've done so. Plug in device

*before* installing necessary software/driver and the device refuses to work, when the software *is* installed, etc.

OTOH, if the devices are going to work, it's under windows where they stand the greatest chance of working! :-/

The list of devices, above (and the software that accompanies them), is one of the reasons why it *isn't*! :<

I'll install VB on one of these little boxes as a "guest application" (i.e., I will image the drive *before* installing it so I can remove all traces of it, thereafter) and see how it fares. I'll see what sorts of "device" problems I encounter. Then, try to put a number on the "performance hit" applications take in that environment (perhaps render a video and see how long that CPU-bound task takes where no I/O is required)

Reply to
Don Y

to

is a

Hmmmph. They never walked or rode bicycle. (Wrote HTML directly or used the simplest tools [NOT MSWeird] to do anything.) Can't drive a screw = by hand, has to have a power screwdriver with auto everything. Same with driving a nail, gotta be done with the gun. Otherwise they can't do anything at all.

computers

the

Reply to
josephkk

keyboard.

Virtualization is not the same as emulation. Emulation pretends to be a different architecture, virtualization is the same architecture and only emulates protected operations like IO, thus it runs near "native" speed, mostly being actually executed directly on the hardware.

I really like VirtualBox, sometimes i swear the virtual machine is faster than the real machine.

?-)

Reply to
josephkk

specific

used

Since you have a common issue of driver validation for plug in hardware VMs are not usually appropriate. Maybe for some USB/FW devices, when you got lucky. Sorry for missing that before. OTOH you might then need to validate that your hardware is accessable/usable in the VM. That could get really tricky.

?-/

Reply to
josephkk

text,

Guide

might

an

The number one problem with that is that WinMP is a crippled piece of crap. And only people that know better than to tolerate it replace it.

?-/

Reply to
josephkk

The problem may well be worse than that. PDF may be the only container that is sufficiently universal to even come close as well.

?-/(

Reply to
josephkk
[...]

I know what you mean, in fact I think mine actually is faster :)

No virus scanner, just a standard minimal set of virtualized "hardware". Must take out a lot of overhead.

--

John Devereux
Reply to
John Devereux

Dunno. I'm willing to live with the "reload a disk image" approach (since I know it leaves the native system in exactly the state it was (documented) at the time the image was created. Once done with the hardware I am evaluating/testing, I can discard the disk's contents and *know* that I'm back where I started -- no updated DLL's, registry keys, etc lingering behind.

On my tablets, a 9G image (system, drivers, utilities plus a set of token applications -- Firefox+Tbird, assorted archivers, screen capture, EMACS, powertoys/sysinternals, etc.) takes about 15 minutes to restore. I know this as I restored an image last night on one of them. Note that's with a slow laptop style drive (actually, it may be a 1.8? drive)

I'll see if I can start playing with these little EzGo machines tonight. Not sure, though as I have 4 episodes of a TV show to watch that might prove distracting! :>

Reply to
Don Y

It seems that Windows' player is always wanting to download some new CODEC -- regardless of the container I;m using. OK, that may be the fault of the container -- supporting multiple CODERs -- but how does the user know that he's got the right CODECs installed? "Ah, I see .ABC files are handled by MediaMagic2000 so I should be all set..."

It's like getting a PDF, *knowing* that you have a reader installed.

*Then*, discovering that some font that the document needs is missing (and substitution is impractical!)

I want the user ("viewer") to just be able to have X installed and that's all he needs to see the presentation THE WAY I INTENDED IT TO BE SEEN (which is the beauty of PDF over, e.g., HTML)

Reply to
Don Y

I'll *measure* that with some CPU-intensive tasks.

Yes, but you don't need a VM to get that "advantage"! I.e., my production machines don't have AV software on them -- they don't talk to the outside world (well, they *talk*, they just don't "listen" :> )

The "easily reloadable image" approach I'm suggesting has the same advantage -- no "Windows Update", "IIS", "Index Service", AVscanner, firewall, etc.

Reply to
Don Y

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