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Re: CPU comparisons sought
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Did you ever hear of the Chestel system?  That was controlled by an
8008, over my dead body (there was only one in the whole system).
The 8080 would have been adequate.

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   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
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Re: CPU comparisons sought
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Sorry, never heard of it.  The company I worked for made mobile
phone systems (AMPS cellular was just starting out, there were
still loads of non-cellular systems out there).  The "PBX"
wasn't a regular PBX: it sat between the base-station radios
and the landlines.  Most of the functions were the same as a
PBX, and the loop-start and ground-start interfaces were pretty
much what you'd find in a PBX, but the non-telco side
interfaced to radio transceivers rather than telephone sets.

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  World War Three can
                                  at               be averted by adherence
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Re: CPU comparisons sought
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Heres part of what I originally posted:
"Is there any source out there that compares these CPU cores for
efficiency, and relative strengths as well as say pipelines,
bandwidth, floating performance and so on?"

This was because I knew everyone hates the word "best" so sarcasm is
redundant.

I really wanted to see pointers for comparison of the cpu cores for
their performance of various tasks, and their efficiency at it. For
most FPU-based, bandwidth, raw integer, tight loops etc, x86 is not
the most efficient (I'm not counting Athlon64 or AthlonXP here, this
is for embedded).

So would you, REALLY consider the 4004 to be efficient, and for which
tasks? Do you have references to back you up? Remember we're still not
considering market share, availibility or software base here...

Re: CPU comparisons sought
On 5 Oct, in article

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Not really there are a lot of cores 8/16/32 that do NOT have FPU, so the
floating performance is to do with library efficiency and how the register
set is organised and optimised for.

Lots of processors and controllers do not have pipelines. How good the
bandwidth is depends on the application.

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Without giving specific types of tasks the question is still meaningless
as are so many benchmarks, which are more comparisons of compilers and
target SYSTEM configuration. More often than not marketing gloss on
product briefs and press releases.

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One of its earliest demos and I believe application was traffic light
controllers!

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If we consider availabilty of software base there are LOTS of 8bit and 16
bit compilers, librarys and other bits of software out there.

Your question still seems to assume embedded = 32 bit .

Embedded is many things and somebody probably has some small form of
analog computer or mechanical computing out there which is totally
embedded. Consider the simple thermostat which can be considered
a mechanical or even analog computing depending on the implementation.
They are definitely embedded!!

To give an idea I use some 8 bit and 16 bit controllers for controlling
and doing image processing on real time video, but they have

        NO pipeline
        NO FPU
        MOST of the floating point is done by integer lookup tables
        Bandwidth is not an issue that is dealt with by hardware.

In answer to your question

        "Twice the distance from the middle to the ends"

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<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/ PC Services
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Re: CPU comparisons sought
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  Seems you can still buy them, (for the price of a high end Pentium :)
see comments at
  http://open-encyclopedia.com/Intel_4004
and you can use Alred Arnold's AS to assemble code, and there
are even ones still running !
-jg


Re: CPU comparisons sought

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Yes, but it'd be easy to emulate with a modern FPGA.
Is the microcode for the 4004 available license-free, or
has anyone rev-enged it ?

Richard M Willis



Re: CPU comparisons sought
On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 09:51:02 +0100, the renowned "Endymion
Ponsonby-Withermoor III"

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I bet there is no microcode- just a bunch of gates.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
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Re: CPU comparisons sought
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Probably true.  On the outside chance that anyone cares, you can play
with your very own 4004.  The MCS-4 chipset (the 4004 was just the CPU
component) has actually been implemented as part of an interesting
simulation package in Java (see
http://tech-www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/applets/hades/docs/classdoc-20030818/hades/models/mcs4/package-summary.html
) for the class documentation (in German) or
http://tech-www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/applets/hades/html/hades.html
for the main page for HADES.  It's a very interesting project that might
be appealing to some people here in comp.arch.embedded -- probably
students in particular.

Ed


Re: CPU comparisons sought

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http://tech-www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/applets/hades/docs/classdoc-20030818/hades/models/mcs4/package-summary.html
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Is there an english version of this anywhere ?

The 4004 is a good teaching example, and the hardware had many Low Pin
Count features that are 'recently rediscovered'.
-jg



Re: CPU comparisons sought
On 2004-10-06, Endymion Ponsonby-Withermoor III
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I'd be completely surprised if the 4004 had micro-code. I
didn't think Intel did micro-code until the 386 (or maybe the
432?)

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Who wants some
                                  at               OYSTERS with SEN-SEN an'
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Re: CPU comparisons sought
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I think it was much earlier.  I remember hearing that the Z8000
(competition for the 8086) was delayed because it was "hard wired"
in contrast to the 8086 organization.

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Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
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Re: CPU comparisons sought
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 19:30:18 GMT, the renowned CBFalconer

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In NEC Corp. V. Intel Corp., the microcode of the V20 et al was
claimed to be substantially similar to the microcode of the 8086/8088.

The concept of microcode predates the integrated circuit, apparently
invented by this fellow: http://www.xorl.org/people/mvw /


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..."                          "The Journey is the reward"
snipped-for-privacy@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
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Re: CPU comparisons sought
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Maurice Wilkes.  One of my most treasured books is one
on computer design written by him and published in 1953!

Now there's an old geek.




Re: CPU comparisons sought
As unbiased as it gets have a look at

http://www.EEMBC.org

and find your way through the information there.
Certified scores from a benchmark consortium based on application oriented code.

Cheers, Schwob

Re: CPU comparisons sought
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (Schwob) wrote in message
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code.

Don't believe the hype! Many of the benchmarks are as broken as Dhrystone.

Cheers,
Jon

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