Cost of uC programming services?

Distris outsource it in my experience. Figure anywhere between $0.10 to $0.75 depending on the code size, time to program, ability to multi-gang, need for unique serialization, and volume.

Hello Lewin,

Thanks for the info. That isn't too expensive. Outsourcing can be a concern. Do you think they anonymize the batches far enough so your code is safe from potential confidentiality breaches?

Regards, Joerg

Your pricing is consistent with my experience. Free is also a definite possibility if your volume and negotiating skills are high (:

Generally you have the parts labeled as part of the programming process.

I've never heard anyone express a concern or problem about confidentiality. I can only assume that mainline distributers have some sort of security in place.

Hello Jim,

The price is pretty low compared to a typical device which runs in the $4-$8 range. Probably 'free' will in the end mean the same as 'free' zero-interest financing on furniture. They just lump it into the grand total.

I'd think so as well. It might become a little more dicey when production has to go offshore at some point. I sure wish it doesn't have to.

Regards, Joerg

If confidentiality is a big concern, don't go through distribution. There exists a product that contains confidential cryptographic material. The code image is delivered on physical media direct to the manufacturer, who has a bonded courier pickup/delivery option.

Last time I had a consumer electronics part programmed through distribution (in the USA), it was outsourced to some three-man company in Canada and the files went from distri to programming house by unencrypted email. This is for a million-piece order, mind you, not hobbyist quantity. There are no guarantees unless security is in your contract. Did your distri even sign an NDA with you let alone a guarantee of code confidentiality?

Hello Lewin,

That would make it complicated and would prbably exclude a lot of lower cost manufacturers.

We aren't quite there yet but they will have to. There would also be some prose in there as to them not outsourcing such jobs. No agreement, no sale.

The best thing would be if manufacturers would do this. IIRC only Microchip offers that service but I am not sure.

Regards, Joerg

Atmel also offers this, and they can unique-label parts for you too, if you want. [last time I checked]

-jg

The pricing noted earlier is also consistent with my experience, including marking the parts with your own chosen part number.

I have never had issues with confidentiality for a couple of reasons:

1. I always execute NDAs with any outfit doing programming for me (and indeed, any distributors that want to know my product roadmap, parts used etc).

1. Any distributor/rep/ that did not keep each customer's data confidential from the other would soon lose a lot of business, including mine.

I have never sent programming tasks offshore - I have either had parts programmed at distribution or done immediately prior to reflow/installation at the CM. Of course, if I were in the multimillion device business, I would have to rethink that.

Cheers

PeteS

Note that by "manufacturer" I meant the manufacturer of the IC.

Most of the chip vendors offer this service. They will also offer custom part numbering free above certain volumes. Microchip offers serialization (SQTP) at an inexpensive price, I imagine other vendors do something similar.

Hello Lewin,

I'll probably have to use TI because I need 16bits and a HW multiplier. So I'll check if they do that. With ROM parts life was easier but my distributor told me that is strongly discouraged these days. Unfortunately that means I have to use the more expensive flash devices.

Regards, Joerg

Hello Jim,

That's good to know. I'll have to check TI though since their MSP appears to be the only device so far that fits the bill. Unless we use DSP.

Regards, Joerg

Some vendors (mainly in asia) have what I'd call ROM-Flow - that is either FLASH, factory programmed, relabeled as ROM, or custom labeled.

That means they can skip some of the FLASH test process, and offer a cheaper price. They also have longer leadtimes, which means it can be used/priced for fab loading ( assumes big enough orders :)

The really well designed FLASH devices, have a fuse that guarantees(?) they can never self-pgm, so are (nearly) as reliable as true ROM.

TI have ROM devices, so they at least understand ROM flows.

-jg

Hello Jim,

In this case it's going to be a domestic processor so there wouldn't be an Asian source for it. It's all under their distribution control.

They do have a JTAG fuse.

Yes, but what I heard is that they don't favor ROM devices anymore. That is why I find the claim on their web site "starting at $0.49" a bit strange. The flash devices really start at almost twice that and when I asked about it I was told that the trend is to migrate away from ROM. Bottomline is that their MSP430 can't compete against some Atmel and Microchip devices right now except where you really need their math horsepower (which I do) or the low power while running a realtime clock.

The other category that seems to have all but disappeared from many of the lines is OTP. For volume production of a low cost device you really don't need re-programmability.

Regards, Joerg

Oh, that's not the case at all. You just aren't a big enough customer - the flash devices can indeed be had for < $0.50...

I think that EPROM is not a fashionable technology these days. But some vendors do still offer OTP EPROM. In some cases, the "mask ROM" parts from these vendors are actually OTPs.

Hello Lewin,

That is good to know. I wish they had some indicators on their web sites as to 'how low it can go'. Like 100k and 1M budgetary pricing. I just was told that this kind of pricing wasn't really for flash parts.

Whatever is cheapest is fine. The old 8051 varieties were OTP, IIRC it was simply PROM in there and not EPROM. As long as it doesn't require a $30k NRE for a mask job. But even with the NRE it sometimes made sense to do it.

Regards, Joerg