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Re: C help please - C newbie

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But it's not 25 years out of date.

It's only 15 years out of date because that's when the new standard
came out, but possibly as few as 10 years because that's when
conforming compilers became the norm.

--
Darin Johnson
    Support your right to own gnus.

Re: C help please - C newbie
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Ken Asbury) wrote in

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First edition K&R is circa 1978, second edition 1988.  Making them about 25
and 15 years old, respectively.

--
Richard

Re: C help please - C newbie
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apparently the Tasking Tricore Compiler *claims* C99 compliance but it
is the only one I know of..

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My thoughts about K&R  I have both K&R and H&S
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Re: C help please - C newbie

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I don't know what qualifies as "widely used", but Greg Comeau's
compiler claims C99 compliance.
http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
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Re: C help please - C newbie
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Whenever a spare pin is available for a serial output.  If there
is a built in display better yet.

--
Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
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Re: C help please - C newbie
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No but you appear to be saying that you do...   You do not. What is more
I know many who would disagree with you about K&R for novices.  You can
not presume to speak for a NG anymore than I can. though I have spoken
for the UK on C matters. Our normal UK experts to WG14 also does not
recommend K&R for novices.

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As they say empty vessels make most noise...  I usually post on
comp.std.c and the ISO WG14 mail list.

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So will I.




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Re: C help please - C newbie

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Not at all. I'm simply reporting the results of many threads where
beginners have asked for book recommendations. Check the archives for
yourself. It was you who said "we", as if you spoke for everyone. Or
was that the "royal we"?

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
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Re: C help please - C newbie
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OK, "I" and the half dozen others who I asked about this during the
week at a conference.

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Re: C help please - C newbie


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If you are aiming for small micros (8-bitters) rather than big ones
(32-bit), then your best bet for learning to write good programs is to learn
assembly first, and only when you have a lot of understanding and experiance
on the micro should you look at C.  That way you write C code that generates
assembly suitable for small micros, rather than something suitable for
bigger computers.




Re: C help please - C newbie
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 09:06:35 +0100, "David Brown"

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As previously said, I do  recommend assembly language first. However,
I recommend it regardless of whether the engineer will be working on
8-bit cpus, 64-bit cpus, or IBM mainframes.

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--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
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Re: C help please - C newbie

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But _which_ embedded systems?  There are tons of embedded systems work
that use 32-bit CPUs with console access trivially available, and
plenty with 8-bit CPUs.  

--
Darin Johnson
    Laziness is the father of invention

Re: C help please - C newbie

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That was my point.

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
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Re: C help please - C newbie
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But DO get K&R2, a.k.a. Kernighan, Ritchie:

    The C Programming Language
    Second Edition, ANSI C

It has all the strong points of the original K&R, plus one: it's as
up-to-date to ANSI/ISO Standard C as you're likely to find in any
published work other than the Standard document itself.

And DO get the comp.lang.c[.moderated] FAQ from the net.

I'm reasonably sure there's not a single textbook on C that comes
anywhere close to really covering C95.

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Strongly seconded.

--
Hans-Bernhard Broeker ( snipped-for-privacy@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

Re: C help please - C newbie
On 18 Nov 2003 12:51:15 GMT, Hans-Bernhard Broeker

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Do you mean C99? Harbison and Steele, "C - A Reference Manual" does a
good job of covering (and comparing) all versions of the standard, and
pre-standard C. I would not recommend it to a beginner, but it's a
good reference book, especially as compilers are becoming more C99
compliant.

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
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Re: C help please - C newbie

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If someone wants to learn programming, I suggest they first learn a
language other than C.  Learning some assembler as well doesn't hurt
either.

For the experienced programmer who wants to learn C: K&R2.

For the experienced C programmer who want to become better: PvdL
"Expert C Programming: Seep C Secrets" (There may be some controversy
about this one's style and UN*X-centeredness, but it contains a lot of
good info on topics most books gloss over, like the difference between
arrays and pointers, and how to read complex declarations).

For someone who wants to actually write a C compiler: H&S5.  And the
standard, of course.  I bought H&S3 when it was new when I wrote my
first C language parser...

Regards,

                               -=Dave
--
Change is inevitable, progress is not.

Re: C help please - C newbie
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 15:40:34 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com (Dave Hansen)

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Learning some assembler is highly recommended. I think I also agree
that C is not the best first language for a beginner, though it's
probably not the worst, either. Personally, I learned Fortran,
assembler, PL/I, and C, in that order. I can't say I'd recommend
Fortran and PL/I as first languages, either ;-)

--
Al Balmer
Balmer Consulting
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Re: C help please - C newbie

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C is definitely not a good first language.  Though not amenable to embedded
work, I (and many others) think that that Python makes an excellent first
language for somebody wanting to learn programming.

www.python.org

--
Grant Edwards                   grante             Yow!  Where's th' DAFFY
                                  at               DUCK EXHIBIT??
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Re: C help please - C newbie
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READ the O/P.. the person IS experienced with assembley

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Definatley not. It is 15 years and several standards out of date.

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This one is better than K&R

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Which?

C90+ TC's and A1 is what most compilers use. C99 is where they are
heading.




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Re: C help please - C newbie
Alan Balmer said for all posterity...
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Over the years I've found myself reaching for Harbison and Steele's
book far more often than any other reference.



Casey

I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol.

Re: C help please - C newbie
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Do note there are several versions still in print. I have the forth
edition which is  dated 95 and does cover the standard as used in most
compilers. The later edition covers C99

Many regard this as the successor to K&R

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