busted BIOS part 2..

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Ok, PCCHIPS the board mfr says to replace the battery.Did that even though
it reads 3.07 volts.same problem

Here's the boot sequence

1) turn it on and it beeps once(seems normal)
2) vdo comes on, show AWARD bios info...
3) memory check. 131Megs ,which is true.
tried 64 megs, 192 megs, always reports correct amount( use this mem in
another PC OK!)
4) goes to ident the drives. correctly reports none( it's out in another
putting in 4 different drives and it correctly ids any and all of them.
5) CMOS checksum error, loading defaults, press F1 to continue or DEL to
enter setup
this is where it hangs! arrghhhh.
tried 2 keyboards which work on another system, same error(LEDs flash on

The motherboard is a PCCHIPS m787clr, 1gigapro with a VIA C3 - VT133
onboard. It's an 'all on the motherboard' style so can't pulloff PCI
cards,etc as none exist.

Now for the really weird part.According to PCCHIPS website the bios flash is
an AMI. According to the bootup screen it's an AWARD ...and... the label on
the flash say Phoenix !!!

All voltages are correct, obviously the cpu/mem/vdo/etc are ok......so...
what else is there ?

I can't update the flash as I can't get into DOS. Aside from tossing it into
the trash can, what other options are left ? Ironically I can get a COMPLETE
tower( P3,128M,20G HD,'all on mobo') for about $150. To buy jsut a mobo and
P3 cpu is over 200. Go figure.

Any ideas......?


Jay Miller
Temtronic Designs Inc.
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Re: busted BIOS part 2..

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That almost certainly means that rather than the back-up battery
(which you already exchanged), the chip being powered by it is fried.

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Try and exchange the chip containing the CMOS ram.  Nowadays, odds are
you're SOL because that function is now integrated into the MoBo chipset.

Summing it up: that board is toast.

Hans-Bernhard Broeker ( snipped-for-privacy@physik.rwth-aachen.de)
Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain.

Re: busted BIOS part 2..
Well I've finally given up on this mobo...

seem a shame to toss the thing into the landfill...

oh well...... more crap into the dirt...


Re: busted BIOS part 2..
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Shame, you have could tried clearing the CMOS.
You also mention that the BIOS isn't what you expected, have you
considered it might be the wrong one?

When the machine POSTs there should be a string of characters on the
bottom of the screen, you can use this to identify the motherboard,
write the numbers down and Google for them, check if the google results
match the board you have, if not someone might have flashed the wrong
BIOS onto it, to recover you may be able to persuade it to perform a
flash recovery boot.
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Clint Sharp

Re: busted BIOS part 2..
And just HOW do I get a PC without keyboard control  to accomplish this ???
I have the AMI flash for this pcchips mb on another PC, but as this mb won't
boot past the 'press f1 or del key' script it's real hard to carry on....
Another idea was that it(CMOS) might be set to a USB keyboard , however 'it'
the BIOS, has installed the 'default' configuration which I ,ah, assume,
would be for a PS2 style keyboard and mouse.
I don't have a USB kbd ...of course.
I've decided to keep on trying until Monday morning, garbage day, if it
ain't working then for sure it's off to the landfill.

Re: busted BIOS part 2..
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Many motherboards have a mechanism to enable recovery from a corrupt
BIOS. The boards are able to boot from a floppy with a copy of the
correct BIOS flash file and automatically reprogram the BIOS chip from
it, all without needing any user intervention. If your board supports
this you should be able to find the procedure and full instructions for
making the disk on the manufacturer's website.
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If your board supports it, you don't need a keyboard to perform a flash
recovery boot.
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Does the PS/2 keyboard flash it's scroll,caps leds when you power the
board up? If not, you might want to check for 5 volts at the KB socket,
you might have a blown fuse on the board or an open trace that feeds the
Clint Sharp

Re: busted BIOS part 2..
yes the kbd leds flash when powered up and they work in 2 other systems.been
there done that.No fuse o the mobo, just a 0 ohm jumper,heck at least on the
first tandy machines they had the 1Amp fuse in an onboard socket.
The PC 'hangs' at the 'cmos checksum error routine....awaiting either f1 or
del key to be pressed. After that is when the BIOS will check for the
floppy, so it sits in 'lala' land.
if you want to see this happen, just pull your battery or clear CMOS and
watch what happens....


Re: busted BIOS part 2..
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Many machines have a flash recovery mechanism that does not require the
BIOS to initialise the display or even check for peripherals. With the
correct jumper set or key held down at power on they will boot off a
floppy before initialising the display, re-program the BIOS chip and
beep to let you know it's finished, you then reset the jumper to its
original position, power cycle the machine and away you go.

Check the manufacturer's website and see if your board will do this.
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I'm well aware of what happens when a PC POSTs, I don't need you to
explain this to me.
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Clint Sharp

Re: busted BIOS part 2..
According to the mfr(PCCHIPS)it has to be done from a floppy......
oh well...
seems a shame to toss the system into a landfill but even the local PC shop
said he couldn't fix it either unless he had the identical mono/bios combo
and we all know this stuff changes every other day.

oh well.... thanks to all for trying to keep it out of the landfill, but
that's where it's going tomorrow morning..

along with a 3 year old wheelbarrow wih one busted handle. can' buy just
handles up here, so off it goes as well with air in te tube,tread on the
tire and the sticker still on the tub

man I hate getting old and seeing all this waste.


Re: busted BIOS part 2..

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Under the WEEE directive of the EU electrical and electronic goods should
be returned to the manufacturer for appropriate disposal in accordance with
environmental guidelines. I guess that this sort of consideration doesn't
apply in the US.

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Re: busted BIOS part 2..

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His email address end with a .ca, so it is not USA it is Canadian.
Still not part of the EU.

Re: busted BIOS part 2..
Nope I'm up in Canada eh !?

I'd like to know in the EU just WHERE would you take a board 'made in CHINA'
back to?

I really detest what the locals allow into the landfill,let alone the
rediculous ideas 'they' have for 'recycling' and reusing.

Case in point...I was NOT allowed to remove a perectly good tricycle from
the trash centre to give to my granddaughter yet had to PAY to drop off a
can of house waste that the truck 'missed'.

On the bright side though I did find a p2-350 system at the side of the
road.Complete with 8gig HD,win98 and all the guys personal info like
taxes,accounting stuff,etc.....

tis a strange world we live in.

Re: busted BIOS part 2..
You know what...BIOS is located in FLASH IC..It's usually 16-bit flash
ICs..You can located it by looking at the motherboard..It's covered by
Phoenix label or  hologram sticker.

If you entered this newsgroup, probably you know a bit about
uC/EEPROM/Flash programming..Why not buy your self an 16-bit flash IC
(says from Atmel probably)..Then reprogram the IC with the BIOS that
can you download from the manufacturer's website.

I dont think that's quite hard..Tell me if you have worked it out :)

Re: busted BIOS part 2..
Hmm... you're saying I should spend he better part of $20 to get a flash
chip,Ok, that's easy enough, now I'd have to buy a programmer for say
another $200,prey to the great gods of PCs that it(pgmr) actually installs
right, burn the chip( that's easy as I've done that since 1702s came out...)
and then the C3 mobo will be OK.
Sounds good and IF I had the programmer I'd have done that
it does hinge on the assumption the bios flash is bad. I can't rule out a
'deeper' problem with the PS2 port of the all-in-one mobo

... also...

For less than $150 I can buy a whole tower.used BUT it has

Why would I spend more just to program the bios ? Doesn't make any 'cents'
me !

However I do want to thank everyone who has offered suggestions, all of
which I've done a few times in the past week or so.

the bottom line is that the garbage guys just hauled away the PC. I'm fed up
with this 'use once,throw away' world but I've got better things to do than
'flog a dead horse'. heck there wasn't anything on the mobo I could even
salvage 'cept the CPU/fan/mem but it won't fit into the 8008 system that I'm
now working on.


Electronic Waste (was Re: busted BIOS part 2..)

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I guess I should have looked closer at your address. ;>

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I am not sure that, even in the EU, we have that sort of detail worked out
yet. As I have seen many a PC go from primary purchaser on to a second
purchaser and so on down a chain of owners, I wonder if the final disposal
is realisable in the way that the WEEE directives intended. I know that car
manufacturers in the EU are being encouraged to ensure that the materials
in their vehicles is fully recyclable. This encouragement is likely to
extend to other products eventually. Already lead is being erradicated from
solder, use of other heavy metals is under review.

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...and I guess we are, at times, glad of that strangeness.

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Re: busted BIOS part 2..

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If he was in Toronto his garbage would go to Michigan, that's where the
Toronto garbage is trucked as the "politicians"   in Toronto have not
figured out how to properly dispose of it in Canada yet.

Re: busted BIOS part 2..
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... snip ...
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Now there's a switch.  It was not all that long ago (and may still
be so) that the US was dumping its toxic waste in countries such as
Poland and India.  Remember the saga of the NYC garbage barge about
15 years ago?

"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
 the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article.  Click on
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Re: busted BIOS part 2..
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It still does.  There's a toxic waste dump in Ontario that accepts
waste from the US.  It's a two way street.  (And Toronto isn't the
only city in Ontario that exports garbage to Michigan.)


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