AVR looking weak against TI and Cygnal

Do you have a question? Post it now! No Registration Necessary

Translate This Thread From English to

Threaded View
Greetings:

Of course we haven't seen them yet, but when 25MHz MSP430s come along,
with their fast 12-bit A/D and D/A capabilities, combined with the
Cygnal 100MIPS 8051 derivatives with fast 12-bit A/D and D/A as well,
the AVR with its 16MIPS and only 10-bit A/D slow 15ksps with no
dedicated D/A hardware, is looking a bit on the meager side.

Is Atmel going to try to compete with these Cygnal and TI offerings
(even at 8MHz, the 16-bit MSP430 core is of similar performance to the
16 MHz AVRs, lower power, and much better analog IO).

I'd really like to see some 33-40MHz AVR offerings, and some with
substantially improved A/D like 12-bit 100ksps, and some with 2 12-bit
DAC channels.

Whadaya think?  What is Atmel's plan regarding what part of the uC
market they want the AVR to occupy?  Do they want it to be a low-power
(though higher than MSP430) mid-performance uC only, or to be able to
compete on all tiers?

Good day!

--
____________________________________
Christopher R. Carlen
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: AVR looking weak against TI and Cygnal



Quoted text here. Click to load it

There is also the Philips LPC2100 ARM family: very easy to use, 60 MHz
operation (54 MIPS), 32 bits, plenty of I/Os, lots of peripherals, and <
$10.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: snipped-for-privacy@dsl.pipex.com
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: AVR looking weak against TI and Cygnal

Quoted text here. Click to load it

Cygnal have 1MSPS 16 bit ADC, and have 24 bit ADC comming.
As well as the MSP430, TI also have the [BurrBrown] MSC12xx family,
with 24 bit ADCs, and 16 bit DACs.
Also from TI, are sub $10 FLASH DSPs, with 12 bit/6MSPS ADCs

Quoted text here. Click to load it

  High performance Analog is non-trivial, and tends to come only from
companies with a proven track record in ADC designs.

  Raw MHz is less a challenge, and tends to come from normal shrink
timelines and/or more efficent FLASH Bandwidth design.

  Atmel _do_ have a niche in GHz ADCs, but I'm not sure you'd paste one
of those next to a AVR :)

Quoted text here. Click to load it

  (Don't forget the up to 64K Bytes of RAM..)
Certainly these Philips & TI 32 bit offerings will put real pressure
on the upper end of 64-128K byte AVRs/PICs in the long term.

-jg


Re: AVR looking weak against TI and Cygnal
$ snipped-for-privacy@news.dial.pipex.com>...
Quoted text here. Click to load it

where did you get this quote?
EUR 12 (approx. $15) is what we get from our distributor for 250 pcs
tray (6-8 weeks for delivery outch!)
EUR 15 (approx. $20) for smaller quantities

also you can add: immature chips (probably with lot of bugs on the
first releases - philips is hurrying to throw on the market chip but
they still have no completely datasheets written), no code protection
scheme i.e. everybody can copy your design ... at this point LPC2100
is still great entry level for learning ARM7 architecture, assemler
etc, but IMO for now can't be considered for any serious job

Best regards
Tsvetan
---
PCB prototypes for $26 at http://run.to/pcb
(http://www.olimex.com/pcb )
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: AVR looking weak against TI and Cygnal



Quoted text here. Click to load it


I paid 7.75 GBP each (about $13) for 20 off LPC2106 from my distributor:
Silica/Avnet, here in the UK. The pound is strong against the dollar at
present, which helps. I think the '2104 is under $10 in quantity, here.
How about me buying your chips here and selling them on to you, I can
probably get 100 pcs immediately. 8-)

Quoted text here. Click to load it

It's still a very nice chip, and should prove *very* popular, IMHO.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM
Email: snipped-for-privacy@dsl.pipex.com
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: AVR looking weak against TI and Cygnal
Quoted text here. Click to load it

Silica have no rep for Bulgaria, I sent request to the quoted office
in Slovenia on their web page and never got reply, same is with Arrow
which is also quoted as their distributor, it seems that Philips have
no enough stock to cover even the initial interest they made with the
LPC2100 buzz.

Best regards
Tsvetan
---
PCB prototypes for $26 at http://run.to/pcb
(http://www.olimex.com/pcb )
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: AVR looking weak against TI and Cygnal
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I think the weak dollar would make it cheaper in the states.  The Philips
distributor
I use quoted me in the $7.50 (USD) range for the 2106 at one point.  Plus
the
FAEs are drooling over this part, therefore I have found them quick to
respond
and unsually knowledgeable about it...

Here's their page:
http://www.futureelectronics.com

--Keith



Re: AVR looking weak against TI and Cygnal
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I think one salient point of the Cygnal (and other) devices is
their membership in the ubiquitous 8051 family, with many
suppliers available.

The problem with the MSP430 (and others) is their single supplier
condition.  I think TI would do well to license the designs to
other manufacturers, and aim for a similar wide family.

We never had any qualms in the old days about using the 8080,
8086, 8088, 8049, 8051, z80, 6502 and derivatives therefrom,
because multiple suppliers were always available.  However the
Motorola competition (6800, 6808, 68000) fell because of
availability.

--
Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: AVR looking weak against TI and Cygnal
Quoted text here. Click to load it

I'll throw some more fat onto the fire.  Have y'all looked at the Analog
Devices Blackfin
531/532/533 family?  16-bit fixed point processing, 32-bit integer ops, very
low power
capabilities (dynamic core voltage and PLL settings), and a <$5 price point
on the 531
make it a contender for a microcontroller.

With core speeds up to 600MHz it can be a very beefy alternative.  Plus,
like the MSP430,
the Blackfin's native assembly language is very well-suited to C
compilation.


--Keith




Re: AVR looking weak against TI and Cygnal


Quoted text here. Click to load it

I forgot to mention that the dev kits for the BF533 are $99 because of
some special, so now's a good time to check them out, if one were
interested...

--Keith



Re: AVR looking weak against TI and Cygnal
Quoted text here. Click to load it
    I think you should mention that thsy ONLY come in BGA packages.


Re: AVR looking weak against TI and Cygnal
Quoted text here. Click to load it

The 533 comes only in a BGA package, true, but the 300MHz flavors of
the 531 and 532 are available in an LQFP package.

--Keith

Site Timeline