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Re: Automotive Software and the Law
Am 16.03.2017 um 16:16 schrieb Tim Wescott:
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My point is that the law doesn't say "the brake controller has to be
written in programming language X using coding standard Y and
development process Z", it just has to be "state-of-the-art". That
state-of-the-art is defined by ISO standards and industry rules. If you
now want to deviate from that standard, you got to prove equivalent
safety. Or get an industry consortium behind you that makes this the new
standard. But you don't need to, nor can you, change the law to allow a
Visual Basic brake controller.


  Stefan

Re: Automotive Software and the Law
Stefan Reuther wrote:
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Unless I'm out of date ( and I am ) none of these things much
touch on *actual* hi-rel and improved-provability techniques.

Most, if not all of the ISO standards have to do with chains
of documentation.

--  
Les Cargill

Re: Automotive Software and the Law
On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 12:10:57 +0100, Stefan Reuther wrote:

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But if no one looks at your code, how can they know you don't have a VB  
brake controller?

--  
Tim Wescott
Control systems, embedded software and circuit design
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Re: Automotive Software and the Law
snipped-for-privacy@seemywebsite.com says...
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Most Countries do not have a specific law that states in such and such  
Act the body must be made only of certain metals.

They have sets of laws (which is part of the problem)

  1/  Basic standards Headlights max power and alignment
        brakelights must be Red at least 2 of them and  
        usually a wattage
    None of which dictates for on lights what the lumens must be
    (France and yellow headlights come to mind)

    For this country steering wheel must be left or right etc

    General comments like to meet standards of certifying agency
    at time of manufacture (rarely retroactive)

    Minimum of from this date all cars must have a seat belt
    Changes in requirements over time dealt with by certifying agency
    (because it is quicker usually and done with consultation with
     manufacturers they regularly deal with)

    Often these laws are varied or cover specific aspects, lights
    seat belts, emmisions SEPARATELY

    Then there are different classifications for types of vehicles

   2/ General Laws from treaties and international agreement

    For example layout of which side wipers and lights should be
    on steering column was at one time haphazd but change by agreement
    during 70's era.

    Acceptance of certain countries/regional authority vehicle  
    certification standards as complete or starting point.

   3/     General Guidelines for Certifying agemcy its goals and limits
    With the power to set standards usually in forms of publications

    Often from a general law about a Vehicle Category(s) and the
    minimum MANUFACTURING requirements and which certifying agencies  
       are involved.

Then you have usually Insurance Body or Motor Manufacturer Body lead  
initiatives like

  Thatcham Group and Euro NCAP (now be copied around the world China,  
  India.....)

    Which partly testing before production, during sales AND analysis  
       of crashes over time by model and type of incident.

    These also go into Driver Assitance Systems (Lane Support, Speed  
    Assist, Collision Mitigation...) no doubt before long driverless  
    systems.

  MISRA which most people here have heard of

Most of these have for decades been more about mechanical, electrical  
and fire safety, simply due to the fact that that was what the major  
components were.

Rarely do they consider drivers need retraining.

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--  
Paul Carpenter          | snipped-for-privacy@pcserviceselectronics.co.uk
<http://www.pcserviceselectronics.co.uk/ PC Services
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Re: Automotive Software and the Law
Tim Wescott wrote:
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Might be worth googling "micheal barr group". Emphasis "might";
I still get spam from 'em now and again.

There isn't any that I am aware of. It's all self-regulation. There
is MISRA, which is fine as far as it goes.

Lawsuits may stand as legal precedent, but a settlement
can't be concluded - even legally - as a recognition
that a defect was a cause.

I don't know that either D0-128 or medical device standards
actually do that much to enforce any sort of defect rate. At
least in the Toyota cases, the logic was more about process
than product.

Throw in self-driving cars and abandon all hope. I don't think
those can actually be verified nor validated. They'll advance
one crash at a time.

--  
Les Cargill

Re: Automotive Software and the Law
On Fri, 17 Mar 2017 05:52:16 -0500, Les Cargill wrote:

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DO-178 (it's not 128 -- I was corrected recently) and medical device  
standards enforce processes that tend to lead to significantly reduced  
defect rates.  So they're not _directly_ reducing defects, but they can  
certainly _effectively_ reduced defects.

And yes -- I see your point on self-driving cars.

--  
Tim Wescott
Control systems, embedded software and circuit design
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