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Re: Atmel AVR assembler

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* HLA is not an Assembler. It is an HLL Pre-Parser,
  that reads a Source File in HLA Syntax, and outputs
  nothing but an Asm Source.

* HLA has almost no users, as everybody can see by
  taking a quick look at the various boards, where
  you try to damage Assembly, by selling yourself.
  HLA has only a couple of _victims_ each week, who
  are gone one or two weeks later, not considering
  the tiny couple of definitive idiots keeping stuck
  with this horror.

:)

Betov.

< http://rosasm.org



Re: Atmel AVR assembler
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You want to waste the c.a.e people's time with this? The r.g.i-f people
have alread complained about this!

NoDot,
...


Re: Atmel AVR assembler
@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

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Said by one from "the tiny couple of definitive idiots
keeping stuck with this horror"...

:))

"c.a.e", "r.g.i-f", "alread", you are sure it was not
"comdlainep", kid?

:))))))

Betov.

< http://rosasm.org








Re: Atmel AVR assembler
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Your posts are generally offensive, and are certainly of no consequence
in this particular discussion. I'm not (before you decide to flame me) a
user of HLA, nor will I *ever* be a user of RosASM (whether it works or
not), as I have seen all I wish to of your flaming, and will not
subsidize it.

If you've nothing of substance to contribute to the ongoing debate on
what constitutes a "real" implementation of an X86 assembly language
tool, I'm sure I am not alone in hoping you will merely observe.

Bill

Re: Atmel AVR assembler
@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:

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If someone can translate this strange sentence in english...

Thanks in advance.


Betov.

< http://rosasm.org


Re: Atmel AVR assembler
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Your inability to parse a perfectly clear English sentence is not
our responsibility.  However, Mr. Meyers hopes have apparently not
been met.

--
Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
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Re: Atmel AVR assembler

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Sorry, but the above sentence members do not make any sense
to me:

* "If you've nothing of substance to contribute"

... targetting... what??!!!... First, my "contribution"
is 3 Megas of Assembly Source called "RosAsm". Second,
all i did, in this absurd thread, was to point out some
lies ans swindlings that can not be ignored.

* " to contribute to the ongoing debate on what constitutes
  a "real" implementation of an X86 assembly language tool..."

The Title of this thread is "Atmel AVR Assembler", and i did
not post _one_ single message about that suject, that is of
no interrest to me.

As for Herbert choices, we have already discussed this, and
Herbert knows what i think about his point of view.

* "... I'm sure I am not alone in hoping you will merely observe".

So, he is sure he is not alone in hoping that i "will merely
observe"... what???!!!... Simply means "i wish you could shut
up"? If so, this is exactly what i did, as this thread has no
interrest to me... until Master jump into the band wagon for
selling his usual insanities.

If this "disturbs" somebody, that the last remaining Asmers
could still be allowed to post anything, to defend Assembly,
on a Assembly News Group, these "somebodies" can go elsewhere,
as there are plenty of other places, where our famous swindler
can spread his self-selling propaganda, without any opposition.

For all the other silent ones, shame on them, for not helping,
each time the swindler writes sentences like this:

- "I know all Assemblers"
- "I am an Assembly teacher"
- "I have written millions of lines"
- "HLA is an Assembler"
- "... TASM, MASM, HLA..."
- ...

... and let the damages caused by that ass-hole go in peace.
Shame on the ones who know what Assembly is, and who keep
silent, in such cases of aggression.


Betov.

< http://rosasm.org







Re: Atmel AVR assembler
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... snip 70 odd lines of raving ...

PLONK

--
Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Atmel AVR assembler
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The sentence is in perfectly good english.  Maybe a little
long and complex.  When in difficulty, you might find
http://bablefish.altavista.com a useful tool.  It rendered:

: Si vous n'avez rien de la substance contribuer la
: discussion continue sur ce qui constitue une "vraie" excution
: d'un outil de langage de l'assemblage X86, je suis sr que
: je ne suis pas seul en vous esprant observerai simplement.

A few mistakes, but not all that bad French.  
To be more clear, the last line could have said:
"je ne suis pas seul en esperant que vous observeriez simplement"

-- Robert

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Re: Atmel AVR assembler
On 24 Jul 2005 12:37:05 GMT, Hans-Bernhard Broeker

[...]
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I might be able to extend the same forgiveness, were it not for the
fact that AT&T/gas is so much _worse_.

FWIW, back when I did a lot of x86 assembler, I used TASM's IDEAL mode
for any code I wrote, and its MASM emulation mode (sans QUIRKS) for
assembling third-party code (if it had needed QUIRKS, I probably would
have re-written it).  I used Metaware High-C for C code, and avoided
gas/gcc altogether.

Regards,

                               -=Dave
--
Change is inevitable, progress is not.

Re: Atmel AVR assembler
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... snip ...
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And then every time you want to use some code from outside, or from
the chip manufacturer, you have to laboriously transcribe it into
your 'better' mnemnonics and syntax, without error.  Similarly for
the joker out there in either space or time who has to use your
special code.

I strongly advise letting the manufacturer set the assembly
language.  Even small deviations can have evil consequences, as I
have found out in the past.

--
Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Atmel AVR assembler
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That's the nice thing on assembly programming: you can assembly
and disassembly it to convert the source to an different assembler.
The AVR simulator has no problem to disassemble and simulate
the code generated by my assembler. But it seems even Atmel
is aware that they use a crazy syntax because any disassembled
instruction gets an comment which explains what this instruction
does. I prefer a syntax where you directly see what the instruction
does without needing a comment.

 
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When small deviations can have evil consequences, then most probably
small deviations can also have positive consequences. Why not try
to start an evolution to the better side?

Re: Atmel AVR assembler

[snip...snip...]
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While I admire your purity of spirit, please do not ever use your
"improved" assembler on any project involving another programmer or,
most especially, on any project that may require life cycle support
for decades.

Maintenance programmers have a hard enough time as it is. Being
introduced to a project that needs "a few small changes" and being told
that, "Oh by the way, the guy that wrote this 17 years ago made up his
own assembler directives" is not a happy thought. Have a heart.

--
Rich Webb   Norfolk, VA

Re: Atmel AVR assembler
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What he could do, without raising hackles everywhere, is write a
set of macros for m4 to process his version of assembly language
into the generally accepted source.  m4 is generally known, and
available.

--
Chuck F ( snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com) ( snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net)
   Available for consulting/temporary embedded and systems.
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Atmel AVR assembler
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And it would be a much more responsible approach to the issue than
running off into left field and inventing an "improved" syntax.

Bill


Re: Atmel AVR assembler

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If you really want to use a different assembler syntax, rather write
software that translates your syntax into the manufacturer specified
syntax. Keeping all the symbols as symbols and not translating them to
numbers. You then can use a standard assembler for the device to
generate your executable.

Regards
  Anton Erasmus


Re: Atmel AVR assembler

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I can't see any advantage in generating an intermediate source
file but a big disadvantage: for debugging you need a list
file and it doesn't help if you get a list file from the
"standard" assembler when you have written the source in a
different syntax.

But how are AVR programs debugged at all? Are there AVR versions
which have support for hardware breakpoints or at least single
step interrupts?  The only alternative I see at the moment is,
to add an assembler directive which automatically inserts a call
to a debug routine after each instruction. But this would
double the size of the code to debug.

Re: Atmel AVR assembler

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As to debugging. Reserve at least a single pin which can be set and
reset, or pulsed by yoour software. A pulse lets you figure out that a
certain position in the code has been passed. The next step is to
serially shift out data through this pin. With some more resources,
use the SPI or the serial as long as they don't interfere with your
code. With some other pins to spare you can write parallel.
I made a hardware decoder http://www.ibrtses.com/products/debug12.html
that lets one decode whatver parallel data.

Once you have your hardware running, have some debug commands in your
communication.
The next step with realtime data is a multichannel DAC on a plugable
pcb that lets you write parallel datastreams in realtime to an
oscilloscope.

And yes, a code change means a new upload of your code to the cpu.

Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net

Re: Atmel AVR assembler
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Aside from the typical pin twiddling, etc. in hardware, the AVR
Assembler has a very good simulator.  With it, you can develop and test
most of a project without a hardware platform, tweak the inputs in
bizarre ways, and see the effects on every register bit.

It's not a substitute for testing on the platform, but it gets through
the early stages and logic issues much faster with excellent visibility.

Richard

Re: Atmel AVR assembler

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AVR Studio has a Simulator - which uses the official AVR syntax of course.
:-)

Bigger parts have a JTAG port for use with the Atmel JTAG ICE (both the
older and the new MKii version), where you can single-step, view and change
cpu and peripheral registers etc. Works with AVR Studio.

Newer smaller parts have debugWire, a debug port using a single pin (reset).
This requires the Atmel JTAG ICE MKii and AVR Studio.

Atmel also sells real In-Circuit Emulators - to be used with AVR Studio.

It's everything there, and everything works fine - and requires the AVR
Studio and proper symbol tables generated by the compiler, assembler and
linker.

Mit freundlichen Gren

Frank-Christian Krgel

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