Affordable PCB Layout Software ???

Who WANTS to run Vista on anything at all? I sure don't. :-)

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Actually sales wise it was a reasonable success.

Percentage wise even a larger part of the Commodore 64 firmware was written by Microsoft. I don't recall a Commodore 64 that couldn't run Commodore 64 software. The Commodore 128 did run Commodore 64 software pretty well too.

Reply to
Dombo

You missed the point entirely, but I guess that should have been expected. Maybe you understand when you grow up.

Reply to
Dombo

Go downtown with a guitar and a bucket. Maybe somebody will toss you the penny that 100MB costs. Actually, you'll have 2/3rds of the penny left to buy another 200MB.

Newsflash: files on a hard drive do not every one of them get loaded for an application to function. Stuff like help files, drm-shit, infrequently used functions just sit on the hard drive until the user needs them.

Adobe reader runs fine and fast on a 1.4mhz laptop.

Are you still using a 200mhz P1 as your main desktop?

Reply to
AZ Nomad

That must be really old. I thought my 4.77 MHz T1000 was slow.

Best regards, Spehro Pefhany

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Spehro Pefhany

formatting link
;-)

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

You are final;ly catching on! ;-)

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

The only case I know of like that was software that used undocumented op codes in the early 6510 CPU. That isn't Mos Technology, Commodore or Microsoft's fault. It was the programmer who used codes the 6510 manual told you not to use.

The Commode 128 was successful enough to spawned the 128D, and the never marketed 256 version that was being manufactured when they were shut down and liquidated.

BTW, Microsoft wrote the BASIC versions used in most Commodore computers.

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Actually, it was you who missed the point. I was pointing that vista is dog slow on the fastest hardware and you pointed out that linux is bloated as well. I mentioned that linux works just fine on hardware

1/4th as fast as current machines, and you pulled out bullshit story about adobe being bloated.

Maybe on a 200mhz P1, it is too bloated to run. Compare that to vista that is too bloated to run worth a shit on a 6ghz 2gb machine.

You're just argueing for the sake of argueing. Kplonk>

Reply to
AZ Nomad

The 6510 (and the 8502 used in the C128) supported the same undocumented opcodes during its lifetime. The only real compatibility issue I'm aware of involved an undocumented way to play samples on the sound chip, which no longer worked with newer revisions of that chip.

With the exception of the Amiga line, all Commodore computers used the Microsoft BASIC interpreter, just like many other home computers.

Reply to
Dombo

As long as that mini-registry follows some standard conventions (e.g., knows how to separate "program" settings from "user" settings -- in many early programs, there weren't individual user settings since it was assumed that one PC = one user, and this causes network deployment to fail), that sounds workable. However, you still need a centralized location to, e.g., register COM servers, DLLs, etc. so that one program can *find* another program in the first place without knowing its exact name and path, etc.

Windows uninstallers are *supposed* to remove their registry entries when you tell them to remove the programs, but it is true that many install/uninstall routines are written and tested very, very poorly. (I've seen a few where even changing the default installation path causes some parts of the program to end up where you want them and others to end up in the original default path, the result of which is that the program doesn't work at all. And heck, there are some expensive programs like PADS PCB and ORCAD that to this day either won't let you or very much suggest against installing them in "c:\program files\whatever" because of the SPACE IN THE PATH NAME. How can you possibly respect a software development company that in 2008 hasn't gotten around to supporting a feature of the file system introduced back in 1995? Sheesh. ORCAD also tries very hard to prevent you from having a space in the name of your design files, although with a bit of trickery you can force it to let you do so. But again... what a piece of junk...)

Reply to
Joel Koltner

Definitely something of a pinnacle of 8-bit computers, the 128D.

The Apple IIGS certainly wasn't bad either, although of course that was already a mixed 16/8-bit CPU.

Reply to
Joel Koltner

Lynx is actually still kept alive by folks who use it in embedded systems such as routers -- since occasionally you'd really, really like to get to a simple in-house data-collection web site or whatever, and don't need the fancy graphics. I installed it on an Asus WL-HDD NAS box earlier this year just for fun, and it worked better even with "regular" web sites than I would have guessed.

Reply to
Joel Koltner

I'm usually more interested in tiny web servers sitting on embedded system that I connect to from a desktop web browser.

Reply to
AZ Nomad

Sorry, but some production runs of the 6510 didn't support all the undocumented op codes. i had a friend who was into graphics, and his

6510 died. I had to try over a dozen chips to find one that worked with that program. Everything else we tried ran on all the other 6510 chips. I repaired hundreds of c-64 & C128/128D computers at the component level.

They had different levels though. When they went from the PET seers, to the Vic-20, they scaled it way down. The c-64 was a little better, but the C128/D was a lot better.

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

Commodore developed their C-256 based on the Western Design Center

65816 16 bit CPU, but it was never on the market.
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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

You claimed that only Microsoft produces inefficient software, and that all other companies use OO programming (why should I care as a user?) and produce more efficient software. If that were true that would be nice, I would only have to avoid Microsoft and I get good quality and efficient software. Unfortunately the reality isn't that simple, and Microsoft far from the only sinner.

When confronted with counter examples, your argument is that bloat isn't a problem (except apparently when it is from Microsoft). Funny comming from someone posting in in an embedded newsgroup, where in a typcial embedded project every penny counts and throwing more powerful hardware isn't often an option.

Anyway when I replace my desktop machine (which is already much more powerful than your '1.4mhz laptop') with a machine that has at least twice the processing power, I expect it to be at least as responsive as the machine it replaces, not slower. I guess I'm funny that way.

The equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and shouting 'nah, nah, I can't hear you'. Very mature.

Reply to
Dombo

For an example a little closer to the group's topic - Code Worrier for the Freescale 6805 devices was something like a 600 MB download, and 1 GB install, for a compiler for a device with a couple of KB code space.

Reply to
David Brown

such

for

I've occasionally found lynx useful from machines that I only have ssh access to. Text-based utilities are very useful for remote administration.

Reply to
David Brown

Hmmm...this the first time I heard of this (used to be in the c64 scene). Especially demo's relied heavily on undocumented features, but nevertheless there were few compatibility issues.

That would be the C65, the few hundred remaining units are nowadays a collectors item which sell for over $1000 on eBay.

The latest PET had BASIC 4.0. The VIC-20 and the C64 used BASIC 2.0, can't think of anything in the C64 BASIC that the VIC-20 didn't have. Interesting background information about why which basic was chosen for a certain computer and why the C128, unlike earlier models, displayed the Microsoft copyright message can be found in the book "On the Edge - the spectacular rise and fall of Commodore".

(comp.sys.cbm would be a better place to discuss this)

Reply to
Dombo

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