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Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers
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Yes, we do.  We use it to ID multiple boards and versions on the USB
bus.

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Unfortunately, the Linux USB generic serial driver is not working
right (Kernel 2.4).  Will try again later.


Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers
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"implementing a simple language" sounds like painting yourself into a
corner, if not done very carefully.

 If it was me, I'd try and 'hook into' as much tested existing
resource as I could, before heading off to plow green fields ;)

 Target Source-STEP/Watch debug would be VERY high on that list.

 Next would be some PC Source-step ability too, but here a careful
subset of any PC language is fine.

-jg

Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers
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We would not implement a language, but some primitives to be driven by
another application/program.  For example, "pbx7" toggles I/O
direction of port B7, "pb7o" toggles the I/O state of port B7.   We
expect the application/program/user to remember the last direction/
state.

Using hyperterminal or another program:

pb7xOK
p
 PB7 PB4 PC7 PC6 PC4 PC2 PD5 PD4 PD1 PD0
 OUT  IN  IN  IN  IN OUT  IN  IN  IN  IN
 OFF OFF OFF OFF OFF  ON  ON OFF OFF OFF
OK
pb7oOK
p
 PB7 PB4 PC7 PC6 PC4 PC2 PD5 PD4 PD1 PD0
 OUT  IN  IN  IN  IN OUT  IN  IN  IN  IN
  ON OFF OFF OFF OFF  ON OFF  ON OFF OFF
OK

Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 13:27:36 -0700 (PDT), -jg

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Thanks.  I don't think I wrote in a way that disagrees with
your caution.  Part of working out the scope and details is
exploring what has already been done and how well that fits
into, or detracts from, what else I'd like to accomplish.
Worse, I'm not entirely sure what that goal is, either.  It's
a moving target right now.  What I have to do is narrow this
down to something I can clearly visualize and communicate the
details about and as I find out what is out there, software
and hardware and possible target student interests as well, I
will nail this down better.  It's all a developing gestalt,
of sorts.  I'm still waiting to discover the self-organizing
point of criticality here; a kind of sudden precipitation
that will occur when I nail this in mind.

When that takes place, I will _know_ what is in and what is
out; what works and what doesn't.  Everything will clarify.

I know some boundaries right now.  But the pure sense of
inspired vision remains beyond me for the moment.  Part of
wanting this discussion now is the hope that something,
unintended or intended, will resonate and bring forth that
precipitation.  But one way that has often and reliably
pushed me into that insprired realization is setting down and
"just doing it."  That may be setting down to write code,
which may then force me to realize my own limitations better
or clarify the goals as I begin to "see" better.  That may be
just "doing a class" without a plan and see where that takes
me, too.  I don't like doing that, because it isn't fair to
others.  But that may be a partial approach to nailing all
this down.

One thing your comment suggests, and may be different from
what I'm seeking, is the very practical issues that you have
to deal with day in and day out and the point that I should
use as much as possible -- even things that may not be
perfect fits -- just for accomplishment's sake itself.  But
if I don't make this fun; if the result isn't out and out
enjoyment by some grandmothers and some kids alike, then I've
not gotten it done right.

I want this to have the possibility of transforming people,
who wouldn't otherwise imagine they'd enjoy taking a
screwdriver to a doorknob, and get them to find fun and
enlightenment in seeing how a doorknob works for the first
time in their lives.  To discover or rediscover the long lost
explorer in themselves.

So unless the tools I find move me clearly in that direction,
well...

Jon

Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers
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Jim, are you sure about that? If I get what Jon is after (without
having
followed the complete thread) he wants to get people interested
in that thing. "Click here choose that" is nothing new for most
people. I suppose all of us have started with non-source level
debuggers, memory dumps etc... If Jon manages to get some people
understand *that*, it will be a huge success on his part. Once
past this everyone will understand the rest alone if interested.

Dimiter

------------------------------------------------------
Dimiter Popoff               Transgalactic Instruments

http://www.tgi-sci.com
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/sets/72157600228621276 /


Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers
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I see a number of important elements here

* engage the student
* Allow different learning rates
* Do not hold back the smarter ones.

and yes, that makes source-level step/watch type operation,
important.
This was what made TurboPascal so popular.

The point I was trying to make, is if the low cost HW allows this, do
not side-step it by language choice.

With modern Syntax highlighting editors, and close to the same
appearance in Debug, novice users do not need
memory dumps ;)

I did see a nice terminal/message-to-pc Pathway in that low cost TI
system, which is a great way to keep the HW costs down. Users can see
real run-time actions, coming back on the screen - of course, some
Flash/Klunk stuff is still needed, so they know the PC can be
disconnected!.

-jg

Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers
In message < snipped-for-privacy@z34g2000pro.googlegroup
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Try the IAR compiler. IAR are "non-vendor specific"   they do a free
version of their compiler with 4 or 8 K code limit.

I also not that TI reference the IAR compiler in their notes so you can
bet that it will have a load of examples for that chip/compiler
combination.

So for $4.40 it looks like a no brainer.

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
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Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers

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You can do whatever fits in 2K.  I have the AVRFreaks gcc coding for a few
PWMs and some calculation and pin IO in under 512 bytes of code for an
ATtiny45.  It's pretty -- aggressive -- about inlining.  I guess SRAM is
even tighter than flash.

    Mel.



Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers
On Sun, 4 Jul 2010 20:15:33 +0000 (UTC), Przemek Klosowski

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I think it's been mentioned.  I had also ordered 9 of them a
few weeks ago.  6 are backordered.

Jon

Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers
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What is a "non-vendor-specific toolchain" ?

--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills  Staffs  England     /\/\/\/\/
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Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers
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Jon,

On an 'as well as' basis (if you are a sucker for punishment?), I've
just spotted the price of this ARM device, sounds not-like-anything-
else :

NUC501ADN Shows 1924 in stock, at NuHorizons at $1.35ea

For that, you get USB, a 16 Bit Audio DAC, (mono)
a Mic in, and std other peripherals.

It uses 32K RAM to keep the price down, and boots from
USB, or SPI, and can run from SPI (slowly).

http://www.nuvoton.com/hq/enu/productandsales/productlines/industrialic/arm =
microcontroller/armmicrocontroller/pages/nuc501a_nuc501b.aspx

only thing missing is the ability to power from USB ?

Their Nuc1xx tools are cheap, not sure on the flow
for the Toy_uC, ( looks like N55UL501 is a new sibling?)

-jg



Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers
On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:43:20 -0700 (PDT), -jg

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Too bad the internal ROM is ... ROM.

What's the future of this thing?  Any ideas?  I don't know
anything about the company.

But thanks, I'll look more into it just the same.  The
ability to boot from SPI makes me wonder about what kind of
memories out there I might use for it.  I'll have to look at
that, as well.  No experience with SPI memory devices.

Jon

Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers
On Jul 22, 7:11A0%pm, Jon Kirwan
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That's under the Price column ;)

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I'm not sure if the NUC501ADN precedes the N55UL501,
or is some rename, as I cannot see both on the same document.
The application would be high volumes.

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Nuvoton is another marketdroid scramble of what used to be Winbond.
They spun off the uC divn, and called it Nuvoton. Been making 8051's
since adam was a boy...


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Truckloads of SPI, and I think they mention 2-bit mode is supported
too.

I think they chose this split, as a common use will be large Audio
sound sets, pulled out of Megabyte SPI's.
(and Winbond are a large SPI memory vendor..)

At that price, and with good sw, this could shake FTDI
a little.

We've had a few apps go past, where just a little more IQ than the
fixed FTDI would be good, and 32K RAM would be plenty.

-jg

Re: a hobby class on microcontrollers

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This is the perfect FORTH machine.

The ROM is only to boot code out of the SPI flash.

The crypto engine is used to protect the code base.

32K (bytes) of code and data space is not much, but you can always
overlay with code from the SPI flash.

And you only need to stock one part cpu and one part flash.

It would be interesting to see what products this gets put into.

don

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