8 bit microcontroller market

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I am trying to get a handle on the current (or at least fairly recent) 8 bit
microcontroller market. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence around,
usually to show a particular manufacturer in a favourable light but apart
from spending several grand on a marketing report I have been unable to
find a set of basic figures for recent years. There are broad figures up to
2000 in the FAQ but nothing more detailed or recent.

Any ideas where this can be found at little or no cost. I am thinking market
share by value, shipments and processor type - that sort of thing.

Ian

Re: 8 bit microcontroller market
"Ian Bell" wrote...
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Hi, Ian!

First, let me tell you what I've been telling companies for the past, oh, eight
years:
"The death of the 8-bit microcontroller has been greatly exaggerated".

Now, Microchip leads the pack in 8-bit, both literally and in spirit. Japanese
manufacturers prefer Japanese uC suppliers. The 8051 market saw it's first hit
ever with
ARM's acquisition of Keil, as ARM's own public analyst statements clearly show
that
their strategy is to move 8051 users into ARM. I'm seeing very strong growth in
embedded
16-bit because 16-bit has more processing power than 8-bit, and lower power than
32-bit.
That's why TI's 16-bit MSP430 is such a strong performer in the marketplace.
http://www.microcontroller.com/news/ti_msp430_50newdevices.asp
  (roadmap)

I'm presently working in an accurate analysis of the present market to be posted
on
Microcontroller.com, but it won't be ready for another month.

BTW, whose figures are those above?

Bill Giovino
Executive Editor
http://Microcontroller.com









Re: 8 bit microcontroller market
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Absolutely...  There are still 4 bit systems out there (Japanese toy
market?)

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I would say that the market will split into 8 bit and 32 bit.  Apart
from a few specialised parts like the MSP430 the 16 bit market will die
out.

Book mark this post and get me to eat my hat in about 5 years time :-)

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Re: 8 bit microcontroller market
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  Do we have to wait ~5 years  ?

Spin and marketing will conspire against such predictions.

  A good, very current example, is the ZNEO from Zilog.

  Zilog pitch this as a 16 bit uC, as the base opcode is 16 bits, with
some larger opcodes. But it has 16 x 32 bit registers, and can do 64 bit
operand maths. Compare that with the CortexM3 (another new core), it has
16 x 32 bit registers, and the base opcode is 16 bits, with some 32 bit
ones.
  It can multiply to 64 bit result, but seems to lack a 64/32:32
- this is pitched as 32 bit controller.

  Who is 'right' ?

  This shows the flaw in trying to firstly pigenhole uC into boxes, and
then moving pick winner(s) and looser(s).

  Freescale look set to somewhat abandon these 8/16/32 bit pigenholes,
so maybe in 5 years time, we'll look back on attempts to quantify
complex devices with a single number, as quaint ? :)

-jg



Re: 8 bit microcontroller market

"Jim Granville" wrote...
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Jim, the first thing I like to look at is the size of the ALU. Then, I try to
look at
the size of the internal register datapath. Easiest way for me to do this is
look at
instruction execution times. If it takes only one cycle to do a 16-bit ADD and
they call
it a 16-bit, I call it a 16-bit.

But if 16-bit moves take twice as long as 8-bit and 16-bit arithmetic takes
about twice
as long as 8-bit, it's an 8-bit to me. Just hardcoding an instruction to do "big
math"
isn't enough for me.

This is a quick view - pipelines and other considerations can make things more
complicated.

Dataquest used to go by the size of the external databus (bad way to do it).

Bill Giovino
Executive Editor
http://Microcontroller.com





Re: 8 bit microcontroller market
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look at
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look at
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they call
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If it takes one cycle to do a 32 bit add, that would be 32 bit ?

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about twice
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"big math"
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Yes, and that's quite valid too.

Problem is, you now have a different yardstick to everyone else :)

The key point is, it is futile to pigenhole these things to any degree
of precision, because everyone uses different yardsticks.

A break down by pin count, or Flash size, would be more informative, but
  those stats are not crunched.

-jg



Re: 8 bit microcontroller market
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Of all the different ways people determine the bit-width of processors,
this is the second least valid (after the internal flash width, giving
us "12-bit" and "14-bit" PICs).  Consider the 68k family mentioned by
Ulf - the 68020 has a 32-bit external bus, the 68000 has a 16-bit bus,
and the 68008 has an 8-bit external bus, yet all are virtually identical
internally from the programmers' viewpoint.

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There are two commonly used yardsticks for bit-width - the width of the
processor's general purpose register(s), and the width of its ALU (with
a total disregard for clock cycle counts - it's the programmer's
viewpoint that is vital).  In the great majority of cases, these are the
same, and almost all cpu architectures can be easily and uniquely
classified in this way.  There are some major exceptions, such as the
Z80, which would have to be classified as an 8/16-bit processor.

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Certainly - bit-width of the processor is far from a complete
description of the device, or its power or speed.  There are plenty of
fast 8-bit devices that are faster than slower 16-bit or 32-bit devices,
and an embedded developer is interested in many more things than some
raw speed measurement.

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Re: 8 bit microcontroller market

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The MC68000 is a 16 bit implementation of a 32 bit architecture and it takes
4 clocks to do a 16 bit add.
Is this a 4 bit architecture?

--
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
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Re: 8 bit microcontroller market
Op Sun, 03 Sep 2006 18:41:27 +0200 schreef Ulf Samuelsson  
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The MC68000 takes four clocks to do an 8-bit add as well, and can't do  
4-bit adds in four clocks or less.  In fact, it needs four clocks to do a  
NOP, and all instructions take a multiple of four plus sometimes a  
multiple of two.



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Re: 8 bit microcontroller market

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Great, this discussion pops up again :-(
So the AVR with its 16 bit instruction is a 16 bit uP?
And the PIC12 is a 12 bit controller?

The only interesting thing is the width of the datapath in the instruction
set.
I.E: what is the maximum width the majority of  the arithmetic instructions
use.
This probably puts the ZNEO in the 32 bit class.



--
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
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Re: 8 bit microcontroller market

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Along with H8/H8S/H8SX/H8 Tiny.

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Re: 8 bit microcontroller market

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  Correct - which is my point, that comparing these 'sectors' is
worthless outside a very coarse scan, because companies make political
decisions on where to place their stats.
  In Zilog's case, I can only guess it is to 'give some space' to their
ARM9 offerings (which so far are looking flash-less?)

-jg



Re: 8 bit microcontroller market

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I will ;-) but I tend to agree with you.

Ian


Re: 8 bit microcontroller market
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And has been for some considerable time.

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Debatable - but they certianly lead in marketing hype ;-)

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I have seen anecdotal evidence of that too.

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Interesting and the subject of much debate - see 8052.com forum for
instance.

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Time only will tell.

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I can wait that long - but how do you get hold of the figures without paying
big bucks?

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They are from the an esacademy FAQ here:

http://www.esacademy.com/automation/faq/primer/3.htm

Ian




Re: 8 bit microcontroller market

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that
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  Well, ARM have to try and talk up their brand, and they _have_ brought
the addresses of all the Keil customers, and doubtless will spam them,
but I doubt it will change designers' decision process a whole lot.
  The core matters less and less, over time : other factors dominate
selection. Peripherals, Flash Size, Speed, Pin Count...
( and that has to concern ARM )

-jg



Re: 8 bit microcontroller market
Hello Jim,


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Add to that: Power consumption and wide supply voltage tolerance. In
low-cost battery apps those are crucial.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com

Re: 8 bit microcontroller market
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Yes, and it's not just battery apps that benefit, wide supply tolerance
also means fewer parts to stock, and better distribution.

Companies might want to deploy a 5V design to drive Power MOSFETS, and
use the same uC in a design that runs on 3.3V and the same uC again in a
battery product.

That's where parts like the Silabs C8051F41x, and the new RS08 from
Freescale, get a big tick :)

-jg




Re: 8 bit microcontroller market
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I think you find that it was related to Flash Microcontrollers, not any
microcontroller.
The AVR has pretty high marketshare for flash micros, but I have no clue
about the absolute figures.

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--
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
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Re: 8 bit microcontroller market

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AVRs have a high share of engineering prototypes, as judged from
discussions in these news groups.  However, final products may or may
not be AVRs, since costs and logistics are more important than
architectures.


Re: 8 bit microcontroller market
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There are plenty of AVRs in accessories for mobile phones and quite often
this is due to price compared to competition.

Recently lost a significant project to an Renesas R8C, but eventually the
purchaser
seems to have understood that the external stuff they are going to need
for the Renesas part will make the system solution more expensive than the
AVR system solution, even if the AVR is a few cents more expensive.


--
Best Regards,
Ulf Samuelsson
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