32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB

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Hi group

I'm looking for a 32 bit CPU capable of running @ 60Mhz or more,
having an external data (16 bit wide) and address bus capable of
addressing 1MB or more of external ram, on chip Flash of ~300KB
(that's a must) and also incorporates a network MAC. The ideal
candidate would have gnu toolchain support, and would also be
available as a non bga device.

Does such a beast exist?

TIA

Markus

Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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Xilinx Microblaze on a Spartan3 in TQFP package?

Oh sorry you want the flash on-chip?  Oh well, 7 out of 8 ain't bad...

But the rest?  All happily done on a Microblaze.

Regards,

John



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--
Dr John Williams, Research Fellow,
Reconfigurable Computing, School of ITEE
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Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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I think You are out of luck, As I see it, the large onchip flash
alternatives are
PXA800: 4 MB of internal flash - no Ethernet and you have to buy 400ku to
get a sample
                I was told two months ago.
There is a new PowerPC for the Automotive market w 2 MB of Flash.
                I do not know, but I doubt there is an EMAC.
There might be some Japanese SH/V850 or so with Flash and ENET, but I really
do not know.
Atmel has the 66 MHz ARM7TDMI based AT91FR40161 with 2 MB of Flash and 256
kB of internal SRAM.
You get 60 MIPS, but only when you copy your code to internal SRAM.


I think You should be a little more clear about your needs.
Do you need internal flash:
* for performance?
* for security?
* for board size?

No one needs a 60 MHz CPU. You need a certain performance level.
You need to know how much critical code/non critical code there is.
(Does the critical code fit into the SRAM)

Atmels best alternative is surely the AT91RM9200.
This has an ARM920T CPU with 16kB + 16kB cache + EMAC.
Available in TQFP-208.
No internal flash but can load from a dataflash available in an SO-8
so if board size is the issue, then this should solve the problem.
(You do not need any parallel flash in the system)
If performance is an issue, you will get that by copying to SDRAM.

--
Best Regards
Ulf at atmel dot com
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Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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Well, so far a new Motorola ColdFire CPU (MCF5282) seems to come close
- but it's BGA and the performance seems to be at the lower end of
what I need. If there are no other options, I could accept bga.

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That's a little high number of units... :-)

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I haven't found any of those with ethernet. Maybe I need to lurk
around some more.

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Mostly for security. In other words, the ethernet could be off chip,
but it seems to get more and more difficult to get (10/100) ethernet
chips that can be used with microcontrollers and are reasonable priced
hence the idea of useing an integrated one. I.e. the SMSC part is way
too expensive.

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You are right. I was not clear enough here. I need something in the
~100 MIPS +/- 20% range

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The nock out criteria is security, hence I really need on chip flash.

Markus

Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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256

Have you tried Davicom?

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I think you will have a problem executing at that performance from internal
flash.

I would check the security function.
I have had similar requirements, and the security function in at least some
cases
could be moved to a small 8 bitter.


--
Best Regards
Ulf at atmel dot com
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Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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The OKI ARM CPU meets your requirements except for the Ethernet.  Check
out the ML67Q5003 which is shipping now, 60 MHz with 512 kB flash, 8 kB
cache and 32 kB SRAM; QFP or BGA.  I believe they are also working on a
new chip that will have the Ethernet MAC built in.  The 5003 can be
bought for under $10 in qty of 100's.  

Check out http://www.asix.com.tw/ for a low cost 10/100 Ethernet MAC.  I
don't remember pricing, but I seem to recall they are cheaper than the
SMSC part.  

--

Rick "rickman" Collins

snipped-for-privacy@XYarius.com
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Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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If security is the primary issue, have you considered programming
external flash with strong encryption and decrypting in-chip as it's
loaded into SRAM (keeping it encrypted on the data bus too)?  It
certainly adds overhead while decrypting/loading code for execution, but
it would greatly broaden your options.  I'll bet there are even some
security-oriented MCUs that'll do this natively (though, again, this
narrows the options).

On the 10/100, I've had good fortune with the ASIX so far in proto, and
I recall it's about USD$15 in low quantity.  It uses a slightly modified
NE2000 non-PCI interface.  Check out http://www.edtp.com for proto
boards - it's cheaper to buy his boards than get the raw chips from the
manufacturer in sample quantities.  Fred will also sell Qty-1 chips for
much less than ASIX.

Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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This would use way too much resources not leaving enough power for the
main app.

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Well, the Coldfire 5282 mentioned elsewehere is - if memory serves -
$17.99 in 10K quantities and does include networking. The problem with
the external network controllers is that they are too expensive
compared to CPU's having it integrated. In order to compete with an
integrated solution such a controller would have to be $4 - $6 which
they are not. If you also add the aditional cost of a more complex
design (PCB space, routing MTBF etc.) the integrated aproach is much
more apealing.

Markus


Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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I am not sure the external approach is really that costly.  The ASIX
chip is $12 in qty 1 from a distributor.  So I would expect it to be
around $6 in qty.  Unfortunately ASIX does not vend through the normal
distribution channels.  But I will be getting a quote from ASIX early
next year.  We'll see how low they will go.  


--

Rick "rickman" Collins

snipped-for-privacy@XYarius.com
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Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
[.....]
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It is possible to buy chips directly from Asix if there is no their
distributor in your region. Here is what I got from their sales department:
Item: AX88796 L
     Lot Quantity          Price
     25 ~   50 pcs       USD7.00/ea
     51 ~ 100 pcs        USD6.50/ea
     101 ~ 500 pcs       USD5.60/ea

Price Term: F.O.B. CKS Airport, Taiwan
Payment Term: T/T in advance
MOQ: 25 pcs

Of course you have to add to those prices shipping costs (eg. Fedex
wants about $130 for a small parcel from Taiwan to Poland) and customs
duty/VAT if applicable. Even then AX88796 is almost 3 times cheaper
than LAN91C111 - eg. polish Memec asks for this chip $20 + 22% VAT when
you buy 100+ pcs.

Regards,
/J.D.
--
Jan Dubiec, snipped-for-privacy@slackware.pl, mobile: +48 602 101787

Głęboka wiara wymaga płytkiego rozumu i nikłej wiedzy.

Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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Make that "The ASIX chip is $12 in *small* qty 1 from a distributor.  So
I would expect it to be around $6 in large qty."   My point is that if
you are not buying in large quantity (>1k) why would you care much about
a $6 difference in price?  

--

Rick "rickman" Collins

snipped-for-privacy@XYarius.com
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Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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Because I need more than 1k and the product is price sensitive. If I
can get a CPU with Networking on chip (and flash) and this is going to
be ~$17 I doubth that I can get a non networked chip and an external
ethernet chip for about the same. It seems like cpu's having on chip
networking are just 1$ more than their network less coutnerparts. A
phy goes for $1 to $2 leaving a maximum price for an external
controller of ~$4. However, the disatvantage of a lower MTBF and
higher costs PCB & manufacturing wise AND a siginficant higher power
consuption make me favour the integrated aproach. You are right though
that with smaller quantities it's probably a different story - or of
course if a compareable CPU can be found for say $10.

I'm currently looking at all options and since not all my queries are
answered yet no final decision is made.

Markus

Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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Well, today must be your lucky day!  You can get the OKI ARM CPU with
512 KB of flash for less than $10 (I was quoted <$10 @ 100 pcs and <$9 @
1k pcs).  If Jan's numbers hold, you should be able to get the ASIX chip
for <$6 @ 1k pcs for a total price of <$15 @1k pcs.  

When you compare the price of a chip with networking to a chip without
networking, that assumes neither part has Flash.  Well it turns out that
the internal Flash is also a cheap addition, so in both cases you have
the price increment for two chips compared to the ideal single chip that
you are looking for.  

I am not clear on your comment about MTBF.  Are you comparing the single
chip that you *can't* get to pairs of chips that you *can* get?  

And don't forget to contact your local OKI FAE about the networking
version of their ARM CPU that should be available pretty soon.  They
were talking about it some 6 months ago when I attended a workshop.  I
would bet that it samples in Q1 of '04 with production soon after.  I'll
be watching that one as well.  

--

Rick "rickman" Collins

snipped-for-privacy@XYarius.com
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Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB

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Thats only if your local OKI distributor wants to sell you
some.20%

Has anyone used the winbond arm chip ? If it is available ?
That appears to have ethernet(at least hardware mac) and usb and nat
 80 MHz 8K I-cache
2K D-cache20%
2 MACs
H/W NAT
2 USB1.1 Host
21 GPIO pins
Full modem function UART LQFP 17620%
http://www.winbond.com/e-winbondhtm/partner/b_2_f_8.htm
http://www.winbond.com/e-winbondhtm/partner/PDFresult.asp?Pname3D%907
no flash or ram or rom though

yup from the datasheet dual 10/100 ethernet Macs

sounds like a router / firewall.

docs are still A revision with characteristics to be added.

Alex



Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
says...
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Have look at http://developer.axis.com/products/mcm/index.html
Regards
Zoran


Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB

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This is an MCM and not a single chip, but we do not know if this is a
problem or not.
Also it is BGA packaging.

--
Best Regards
Ulf at atmel dot com
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Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
oN 24-Nov-03, Markus Zingg said:

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Right until you specified non-BGA...


--
Bill
Posted with XanaNews Version 1.15.8.2

Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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Since it seems like there is no other solution without BGA im
interested to hear what alternative you would have proposed.

Markus


Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
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Hmm, lost parts of the thread, so if I repeat this: Sorry.

Coldfire 5282 comes with 512K Flash + 64K DPRAM + 2K Cache and runs at
66MHz (and has CAN).
But is BGA.

Atmel AT75C220 (ARM7TDMI), dual 10/100 MAC, DSP, but only 256K Flash
(but it might be as good as 512K on the CF, since Thumb code uses less
memory). Not BGA !
But only 40MHz (latest I know, but Ulf should know better :-)

---
42Bastian
Do not email to snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com, it's a spam-only account :-)
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Re: 32 bit CPU, network and on chip flash ~300KB
"42Bastian Schick"
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  256K flash does not appear  on the 75C220 data sheet I can see.

 Besides the 32 bit ones mentioned, you could look at the
FLASH DSPs from Motorola or TI, or perhaps the
 Zilog eZ80 - meets Flash, Ethernet Comms, and non-BGA needs,
has 24 bit ALU so might make the MIPS - probably needs some
real test code to check that aspect ?

or perhaps the Ubicom  IP3023 - tho does not look real yet ?
-jg



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