for at komme i gang..

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Når nu man skal i gang med at lege med elektronik .. så skal der jo handles
lidt i starten ..

er der nogen gode forslag til følgende ting ?

Loddekolbe
Loddetin
Pakke med diverse modstande
Pakke med lys-dioder

Min tanke er faldet på at ville lege med Arduino sættet, og har fundet det
hos elektrokit i sverige.. og den svenske krone er jo ..hmm.. noget
favorabel lige for tiden ..

har udover ovenstående fundet mig pakke med koblingsledninger til
breadboard, samt breadboard og stabil 1.5-12V 4A strømforsyning, som jeg
gætter på kan bruges til langt det meste :)

Andre ting der lige mangler for at komme i gang ?
Ved godt at jeg ikke skal bruge loddekolbe og tin, når jeg har breadboard ..
men .. man kommer jo nok ik uden om det i det lange løb, og .. igen .. den
svenske krone..

Lars



Re: for at komme i gang..
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...

universalinstrument, kaffe, tålmodighed. Så længe det er små
strømme/spændinger, kan du undvære høreværn og sikkerhedsbriller :-)

Bo //

Re: for at komme i gang..

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Universal instrument, kaffe og tålmodighed, der er jeg dækket ind..
høreværn og briller har jeg også .. men har det nok ikke på mens jeg fumler
med dette..

;)

Lars



Re: for at komme i gang..
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Det lyder ikke helt tosset, et ok universal instrument er nøvendigt, men
sådan et kan fåes meget billigt nu om stunder.

Sørg i øvrigt for at din strømforsyning er med variabel strømbegrænsning
hvis det er en du giver penge for, det har tit holdt røgen inde i min
elektronik.

Re: for at komme i gang..

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Kanskje du bliver så avansert at du kan lave blinklys og siger som svensken
som skulle sjekke bilen sin: funkar - funkar - inte funkar.... :-)



Re: for at komme i gang..
Hej Lars

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Du skal som andre siger have et multimeter, og et af dem
fra Harald Nyborg til 39,85 Kr. løser 99 % af alle de opgaver
du vil møde i elektronikverdenen.

Og så mener jeg at det første du skal bygge er en seriøs
strømforsyning der har regulerbar spænding og strøm-
begrænser. En der kan klare 0-30 V / 0-3 A vil være
rigtig god til mange opgaver, en dobbelt udgave af den
vil være rigtig super, men en stor opgave. Jeg ved godt
at man kan købe sådan en strømforsyning, men det
giver ikke den lærdom og erfaring det giver at bygge
selv. Og det med at bygge selv har så den fordel at
du selv kan reparere den når den går i stykker lørdag
aften.

Du kan finde en rigtig god udgave af sådan en her:

http://www.sandcastle.dk/Artikler/PWS1.gif
http://www.sandcastle.dk/Artikler/PWS2.gif
http://www.sandcastle.dk/Artikler/PWS3.gif

--
Mvh Max


Re: for at komme i gang..
Hej Max
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Man skal bare lige være opmærksom på at indgangsimpedansen typisk ligger på
1MOhm, hvor dem der på tilbud koster 99 kr (normalt 199) har 10MOhm.

Mvh Hauge



Re: for at komme i gang..
On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 17:56:10 +0100, "Max"

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Jeg så netop igår på en radioamatørside, at man ikke skulle købe de
billigeste multimetra, da de ofte kan måle volsomt meget forkert,

Der blev smidt 12 volt ind, men det blev målt til 16. :-(


Jeg har selv et par digitale mulitmetra,  men jeg bruger næsten altid
det gode gamle analoge meter, da det er meget nemmere at overskue,

--

Mvh

per


Re: for at komme i gang..
Hej Per

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Jeg har vel 10 stk forskellige instrumenter liggende rundt omkring,
både billige (meget billige) og mellemklasse vare, og ingen af dem
måler så meget forkert at det betyder noget. Ligeledes har jeg set
rigtig mange af de billige, og de har nu målt fint nok.

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Det er meget et spørgsmål om vaner, jeg er også vokset op med et
rørvoltmeter på bordet, men bruger faktisk aldrig andet end digital
instrumenter nu om dage. Derimod har jeg aldrig rigtigt vænnet mig
til Auto Ranging instrumenter.

--
Mvh Max


Re: for at komme i gang..
On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:11:37 +0100, "Max"

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Ok,  Jeg ved kun hvad der stod, og hvad billedet viste,
 
Kan selvfølgelig ikke finde siden mere.
--

Mvh

per


Re: for at komme i gang..
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Det er typisk en ICL7106 der bliver brugt i begge typer, altså de billige og
de lidt dyrere.

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Helt seriøst, så virker det mig mere som et defekt DMM end noget de generelt
vil måle, da jeg *aldrig* har oplevet så stor en fejl. Fejlene plejer at
være nede på sidste decimal. Fejlen kan selvfølgelig forekomme pga.
indgangsimpedansen.

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Det er blot et spørgsmål om vane. Nåja og religion ;)

Mvh Hauge



Re: for at komme i gang..

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Jeg er ret sikker på at man hurtigere opfatter og forstår  et analog,
i forhold til digitale tal. indtil man skal bruge briller:-) og
nøjagtighed.

--

Mvh

per


Re: for at komme i gang..

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Nej, det kommer an på hvad man skal måle om det er mest
formålstjeneligt med et analogt eller en digital instrument.

Dertil kommer så enes personlige smag, nogen kan ikke bruge et
digitalinstrument, andre vil kun bruge samme.

/Hans

Re: for at komme i gang..
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 21:54:44 +0100, Hans Kjaergaard

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Nix ens hjerne opfatter nemmere at analog ( alså med en viser)
 end et tal.

Det er kun opfattelsen jeg taler om, !
--

Mvh

per


Re: for at komme i gang..

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Og jeg taler om "det kommer an på hvad man skal måle om det er mest
formålstjeneligt med et analogt eller en digital instrument.

Hvis jeg skal måle hvad er spændingen i min stikkontakt, ja så er
digitalinstrumentet det bedste at bruge.

Hvis jeg skal justerer tomgangsstrømmen i en forstærker er et
analoginstrument bedst.

Den ene type er ikke den anden overlegen, det er et spørgsmål om "hvad
skal vi måle ?" der afgør hvilken type instrument der er mest
formålstjenelig at benytte.

Det er ikke et spørgsmål om enten den ene type instrument, eller den
anden type instrument.
Man bør have begge.

Men bevares vane og religion er jo også i spil i dette tilfælde.

/Hans

Re: for at komme i gang..
On Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:56:54 +0100, Hans Kjaergaard

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Hvorfor er det lige det?
--

Mvh

per


Re: for at komme i gang..

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Begge instrumenttyper vil vise samme værdi, men digitalinstrumentet
vil vise 223 og på analoginstrumentet vil det være mere tidskrævende
at se at viseren står på/ud for 223.

Det interesante er "Hvad er spændingen ?" og der er der direkte
respons ved digitalinstrumentet.

Hvis jeg bare skal se om der er spænding i stikkontakten i det hele
taget (den præsics spænding er underordnet) ja så er
analoginstrumentet bedst.

/Hans

Re: for at komme i gang.. [ Hjernen - analog kontra digital...arv og miljø...osv... ]
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Hej!

Svar til dette indlæg sendes til:
nttp://dk.teknik.elektronik

-

En digital-immigrant vil sandsynligvis opfatte et analogt ur lettest

og

en digital-native vil sandsynligvis opfatte et digitalt ur lettest

;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_native

http://www.digitalnative.org /

-

Og nu til en kæmpe perspektivering ;-)

Hjernen - den ved vi grundlæggende set ikke hvordan fungerer?


Her er "lidt" information til at nuancere jeres opfattelse af dyrs og
menneskers hjerner - og "lidt" om vores manglende viden om neuroner:

2004-06-16, Sciencedaily: Gray Matters: New Clues Into How Neurons
Process Information:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/06/040616064016.htm
Citat: "...
"It's amazing that after a hundred years of modern neuroscience
research, we still don't know the basic information processing functions
of a neuron," said Bartlett Mel.
...
"For lack of a better idea, it has always been thought that a brain cell
sums up its excitatory inputs linearly, meaning that the excitation
caused by two inputs A and B activated together equals the sum of
excitations caused by A and B presented separately."

"We show that the cell significantly violates that rule," Mel said.

The team found that the summation of information within an individual
neuron depends on where the inputs occur, relative to each other, on the
surface of the cell.
...
While the results are promising, the team is certain this is not the
final word on the pyramidal neuron.
...
"Undoubtedly, this is still too simple a model," Mel said. "But the
two-layer model is a better description, it seems, than to assume that
the neuron is simply combining everything linearly from everywhere.
That's clearly not what these data show."
...
Mel emphasizes that the "arithmetic" rules he and his colleagues found
in pyramidal neurons may not apply to all neurons in the brain.

"There are other neurons that have different shapes, inputs,
morphologies and ion channels," he said. "There might be a dozen
different answers to the question, depending on what neuron you're
looking at."
...
[ Bemærk: Dette er en tentativ model - vi ved ikke om hjernen fungerer
eksakt som en computer!: ]
"We tend to view the brain as a computer," he said. "If we want to
figure out how this computer works, we must first know how its separate
parts function."
..."

-

Vores hjerne er temmelig plastisk - også efter teenageårene:

February 6, 2006, Sciencedaily: Brain Changes Significantly After Age
18, Says Dartmouth Research:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060206105011.htm
Citat: "..."The brain of an 18-year-old college freshman is still far
from resembling the brain of someone in their mid-twenties," says
Bennett. "When do we reach adulthood? It might be much later than we
traditionally think."..."


Nov. 14, 2007 Certain Mature Neurons Can Retain A Youthful Form Of
Plasticity:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071108130203.htm
Citat: "...
It's a general belief that the circuitry of young brains has robust
flexibility but eventually gets "hard-wired" in adulthood. As Johns
Hopkins researchers and their colleagues report in the Nov. 8 issue of
Neuron, however, adult neurons aren't quite as rigidly glued in place as
we suspect.
...
Why the brain would want such motile, non-connected branches is the next
mystery to tackle. Linden thinks they may present a second mechanism for
conveying information beyond traditional synapses or assist in nerve
regeneration, quickly forming synapses should nearby nerves get damaged.
..."


May 29, 2008, Brain Cells Help Neighboring Nerves Regenerate:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080527170516.htm


Dec. 22, 2007 Neuronal Circuits Able To Rewire On The Fly To Sharpen Senses:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071216155630.htm
Citat: "...
Researchers from the Center for the Neural Basis of Cognition (CNBC), a
joint project of Carnegie Mellon University and the University of
Pittsburgh, have for the first time described a mechanism called
"dynamic connectivity," in which neuronal circuits are rewired "on the
fly" allowing stimuli to be more keenly sensed.
...
"If you think of the brain like a computer, then the connections between
neurons are like the software that the brain is running. Our work shows
that this biological software is changed rapidly as a function of the
kind of input that the system receives," said Nathan Urban, associate
professor of biological sciences at Carnegie Mellon.
..."

Apr. 13, 2006 Brain Communicates In Analog And Digital Modes Simultaneously:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/04/060412223937.htm
Citat: "...
Contrary to popular belief, brain cells use a mix of analog and digital
coding at the same time to communicate efficiently, according to a study
by Yale School of Medicine researchers published this week in Nature.
...
"This study reveals that the brain is very sophisticated in its
operation, using a code that is more efficient than previously
appreciated," said David McCormick, professor in the Department of
Neurobiology and senior author of the study. "This has widespread
implications, not only for our basic understanding of how the brain
operates, but also in our understanding of neuronal dysfunction."

"It's as if everyone thought communication in the brain was like a
telegraph, but actually it turned out to be more similar to a
telephone," he said.
...
This means that the waveform generated in the receiving neuron is not
just determined by the digital pattern of action potentials generated,
but also by the analog waveform occurring in the sending neuron.
...
McCormick said future investigations and models of neuronal operation in
the brain will need to take into account the mixed analog-digital nature
of communication. Only with a thorough understanding of this mixed mode
of signal transmission will a truly in depth understanding of the brain
and its disorders be achieved, he said.
..."

Apr. 2, 2007 It's Only A Game Of Chance: Leading Theory Of Perception
Called Into Question:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070327144225.htm
Citat: "...
The validity of a leading theory that has held a glimmer of hope for
unraveling the intricacies of the brain has just been called into
question. Dr. Ilan Lampl of the Weizmann Institute of Science's
Neurobiology Department has produced convincing evidence to the
contrary. His findings recently appeared in the journal Neuron.
...
The consequence of this research is likely to contribute significantly
to the ongoing debate on neuronal coding. Lampl: "Since the 1980s, many
neuroscientists believed they possessed the key for finally beginning to
understand the workings of the brain. But we have provided strong
evidence to suggest that the brain may not encode information using
precise patterns of activity."
..."

Mar. 5, 2007 Neurons That Detect Motion Rapidly Switch Between Modes Of
Data Collection:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070301102736.htm
Citat: "...
The findings are just the latest to suggest that sensory neurons are
more "plastic" than believed, says co-author Thomas Albright, director
of the Vision Center Laboratory. "One of the tenets of sensory
neurobiology over the last 40 years has been that neurons are hard
wired, that there is not a lot of room for change," he says. "That view
is being increasingly eroded due to evidence that these cells can change
the way they represent information based on sensory input."
...
Vision is thus an act of dynamic interpretation requiring highly
flexible processing.
..."

-

Forbedred jer på endnu mere kompleksitet:

Kig i kildernes overskrifter og citater her:
http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junk-dna


Mon genekspressionskoncerten påvirker neuronernes "adfærd/beregning"? Og
dermed os?:


Dec. 12, 2007 When She's Turned On, Some Of Her Genes Turn Off, Fish
Study Shows:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071210162931.htm
Citat: "...
When a female is attracted to a male, entire suites of genes in her
brain turn on and off, show biologists from The University of Texas at
Austin studying swordtail fish.
...
This is one of few studies to link changes in the expression of genes
with changes in an individual's behavior in different social situations
...
"What we have not appreciated until now is how dynamic the genome is,"
said Hofmann. "It is constantly changing and even in a very short period
of time, 10 percent of the protein-coding genome can change its
activity. We now have a genomic view of these dynamic processes within a
social context."
..."

Swordtail fish er vist sådan en her:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_swordtail


Apr. 23, 2008 Nurture Over Nature: Certain Genes Are Turned On Or Off By
Geography And Lifestyle, Study Suggests:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080422150659.htm
Citat: "...
Although Idaghdour initially hypothesized that environmental factors
would play a role in gene expression, he didn't expect such large
differences. About 30 percent of genes were differentially expressed
between urban dwellers and mountain agrarians.
..."


4. sep 2007 Ny DNA-kortlægning: Vi er langt mere forskellige, end vi troede:
http://ing.dk/artikel/81025
Citat: "...
Du kan have adskillige gener, der disponerer, at du får kongeblå øjne,
sofa-håndtag, krøller og en yderst høj risiko for at få en blodprop.
Alligevel kan du ligeså vel ende med at blive en slank starut med
skaldet isse, grønne øjne og aldrig opleve, at et af dine blodkar bliver
tilstoppet.

Vores genetiske koder er nemlig langt mere komplicerede og unikke, end
videnskaben hidtil har troet.
..."


August 15, 2007 Conquest Of Land Began In Shark Genome:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070814212149.htm
Citat: "...
Scientists at the University of Florida have identified genetic activity
in sharks required for the development of hands, feet, fingers and toes
in limbed animals.
...
Genetic processes were not simple in early aquatic vertebrates only to
become more complex as the animals adapted to terrestrial living. They
were complex from the outset.
..."

hilsen

Glenn

Re: for at komme i gang..

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Du tager desværre fejl, Per.
Unge mennesker i dag kan ikke aflæse et analogt multimeter.
At de så knap nok magter at aflæse et digitalt
gør kun sagen værre.

Måleteknik? Oscilloskop?
Jeg har gemt alle de dyre oscilloskop-prober væk nu,
de blev jo nærmest brugt til at åbne fredagsøl med.

De almindelige passive komponenter kaldes nu:
Capacitorer, resistorer og induktorer.
Hvad fanden blev der af kondensatorer, modstande og spoler?

Suk!

/Bo.  [DTU]



Re: for at komme i gang..
Bo Braendstrup skrev:

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Helt enig Bo

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:-)

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De ligger da stadig i mine racoreoler :-)

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jeps dybt SUK
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Erik (ex dtu)

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