Why Electric Motors Are 3X - 4X More Efficient Than Internal Combustion

When it comes to converting one form of energy one way to mechanical work only a Pelton wheel can approach an electric motor's 95+% efficiency.

In sharp contrast all single cycle high compression ratio ICE small enough to be hauled down a road tops off at 40% efficiency with vehicle size spark ignition ICE generally running below 30%. That's a well tuned engine running on it's "sweet spot" rpm.

Why can't anyone do much about the sorry efficiency of 99.9% of the prime movers on the planet?

Far and away the biggest problem comes from the basic thermocycles of adiabatic engines, i. e., gas turbines (Brayton/Joule/Ericsson I), diesel (Diesel) and spark ignition (Otto).

The machinery dictates the processes and the shape of the thermocycle and even the idealized [read: fantasy] adiabatic cycle doesn't fill a Carnot or other isothermalized parallelogram cycle -- the thermodynamic limit of heat engines -- very well. Materials temperature limits reduce the Carnot limit below 100%, so maybe a little over 50% Carnot for most ideal adiabatic cycles.

The real cycle, however, looks more like a paramecium. The nice sharply defined corners of the ideal have been rounded reducing efficiency still more.

Toss in incomplete combustion and other parasitical losses and electric motors start to look pretty.

Bret Cahill

Reply to
BretCahill
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Sure, but where does the electricity come from?

An electric motor is efficient because it's not a heat engine. Their practical efficiency can approach 100%. Transformers can approach 100% too. Neither can turn fuel into work.

And electricity is hard to transport and store.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

One word. Carnot.

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etc etc. And there's more.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

The Prius uses a 4 stroke Atkinson cycle engine. Like a conventional Otto engine, the air-fuel mix is optimum. But like a diesel there is no throttle plate. Not pumping air past a throttle plate is supposed to be one reason Atkinson has a higher efficiency. The effective compression ratio (and power) are controlled by intake valve timing.

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Reply to
Jon Slaughter

Power plants that run at much higher efficiency (and much cleaner per kilowatt of energy produced) than any automobile engine could ever hope to do.

Really? Do you know of any city in the industrialized world that

*doesn't* have an electricity transportation system already in place? Storage is somewhat problematic but it seems a safe bet that this is because efforts at storing it more efficiently have been systematically shut down.
Reply to
Daniel T.

Good point. Without a turbo or other scheme there is an additional loss from incomplete expansion.

Bret Cahill

Reply to
BretCahill

You haven't done much in law or politics have you?

Bret Cahill

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Reply to
BretCahill

Do you know of any built entirely with superconductors to eliminate all I/R losses? Do you know ANYTHING about electricity, other than not to stick your tongue in a light socket, the second time?

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Reply to
Michael A. Terrell

snipped-for-privacy@peoplepc.com wrote in news:f5554356-f802-4096-9fad-cb1d0e313253@

26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com:

Yup. But the gas/oil/coal-fired power plants needed to generate the electricty do not. Then you have the line losses transmitting it to point- of-use.

Reply to
Publius

Pity about the problem of getting power from the grid to them with cars.

Reply to
Rod Speed

Overall typical thermal efficiency is in the 30-40% region. No free lunch.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

Not that great actually.

How do you reckon they're cleaner ?

Overall thermal efficiency from typical power plant to power socket is in the 30-40% region.

A very large marine diesel can and does EXCEED 50% thermal efficiency. Only now are combined cycle gas turbine generators coming on line that can beat that but you still have transmission losses.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

The myths about electricity and how it can be used and how good it is 'for the environment' never fail to amaze me.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

On one side:

- an oil terminal

- at 1 km from the oil terminal, a 50MWe marine diesel, fueled with that oil at 50% efficiency

- an electric network that takes the electricity to 10'000 homes

- in each home an electric car that makes 100 km daily, no warming need, no motor testing, only start and go

On the other side:

- an oil terminal

- at 1 km from the oil terminal, a refinery

- a dozen of gas stations

- a couple of gas trucks to refill the gas stations

- 10'000 cars, that at least weekley make a stop at the gas station

- 10'000 cars, that in winter need a warming phase before actual drive

- 10'000 cars, that at every traffic light, burn fuel waiting green

Transmission losses ? Surely. Oil and fuel have to travel. A gas truck takes 8'000-12'000 gallons. If that trucks does 100 km, what are the transmission losses ? And the refinery efficiency ? Some how it as to go in the ICE motor calculations.

R.L.Deboni

Reply to
RLDeboni

How can a water turbine generator pollute more than a coal fired turbine of the same output?

Reply to
John

An interesting concept.

testing ?

That is not the correct way to drive a car from cold AIUI.

Build roundabouts like in Europe. You see relatively few lights here.

Low.

Pretty minimal I expect.

Refining petroleum is ~ 75% efficient IIRC but you also get other saleable and very useful by-products.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

the same output?

Trouble is that only a tiny percentage of electricity is generated that way.

Reply to
Rod Speed

You mean hydro ? Most suitable locations are already in use.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

engine

the same output?

Norway is lucky that way.

Graham

Reply to
Eeyore

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