The "Water Vapor Noise Eliminates the CO2 Signal" Denier Argument

of course, but the greater absorption spectrum of water vapor,

> as well as its greater amount, "swamps" carbon dioxide

How does a lot of noise eliminate the signal?

In phase sensitive detection the initial input from the signal is much less than that of the noise. After integrating the signal over a few thousand cycles, however, the signal is much larger than the noise. The noise doesn't integrate / accumulate and eventually vanishes.

H2O isn't a gas like CO2. H2O a condensable _vapor_ and any excess H2O precipitates out of the atmosphere.

CO2 is a gas and any excess CO2 hangs around for decades or centuries.

That's why H2O only enters the AGW equation to the extent that CO2 has _already_ warmed the atmosphere. The higher temp. due to CO2 allows more water vapor in the atmosphere.

This is a _positive_ feedback.

Bret Cahill

Reply to
Bret Cahill
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Sssh! The AGW deniers don't want anyone to think their "research" is flawed. People might get scared and "go green" and that would be bad for "business as usual".

I think you are confusing the skeptics here and they might become frightened!

Is that why gasbags like Rush Limbaugh and Donald Trump have hung around so long, polluting the weak minds of right wangers?

Will the evaporation of the oceans keep them from rising? Another straw for junk scientists to cling to.

And that causes a LOT of whining and unpleasant noise. Just see what happens when the far righteous confabulators start weighing in. They're probably

yelling with their fingers in their ears, "Nya Nya Nya I don't wanna hear that! Waah!"

Paul

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Reply to
P E Schoen

And what is the overall net forcing effect of H2O? That's never been conclusively settled. Lots of evidence suggests strong negative feedback from cloud cover, which can only increase with more evaporation. Even the "how to debate a skeptic" websites admit this remains the most uncertain, unsettled aspect of climate science.

Reply to
Chom Noamsky

Not enough to keep polar ice from melting because of the CO2.

Now it's time to do what deniers always do: Deny that polar ice is melting and then suggest that NASA, NOAA, _Scientific American_ and every university on the planet except Liberty U. is involved in a conspiracy.

Bret Cahill

Reply to
Bret Cahill

I use "swamping" merely as a descriptive of hydrological cycles, not that CO2 is not "appreciable," whether or not its amount is considered to be a "trace."

what a transparent farceur.

the presuppositions about the Arctic ice are flat-earther's, viz Snell's law; there is no where, thereat. anyone who has seen footage of the nine tenths, knows about this ... even if they cannot do any spherical trig.

Reply to
1treePetrifiedForestLane

At least you are creative enough to come up with your own wing nut theories.

The denier who keeps invoking the word "trace" as though that automatically leads to some quantitative science conclusion is getting a bit tiresome.

Keep up the good work!

Bret Cahill

Reply to
Bret Cahill

Thus concludes my attempt to have an intelligent conversation with Bret Cahill.

Reply to
Chom Noamsky

also, of course, insolation varies from zero to max to zero, sinusoidally ever day, mod twilight (i.e. at the arctic circles).

smeday, someone in here will do the trig of Snell's law, thereunto.

Reply to
1treePetrifiedForestLane

There was one thing you hadn't reckoned with. You have to differ water vapor in models and water vapor in reality.

This study shows no up or down trend in global water vapor, a finding of major significance that differs with studies cited in AR5. Climate modelers assume that water vapor, the principle greenhouse gas, will increase with carbon dioxide, but the NVAP-M study shows this has not occurred. Carbon dioxide has continued to increase, but global water vapor has not.

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Doh!

Reply to
Peter Muehlbauer

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