Something others may find useful (mains leds and dimmers)

(1) Some implementations of LED light PSU's won't tolerate conventional dimmers.

(2) I solved the problem recently by installing a dozen of these...

thorough out the house. Nice! ...Jim Thompson

Do they have a connection to the power pins?

Unfortunately, no outlets in the living room aren't already blocked by furniture so they wouldn't do much for me.

Yes. Copper fingers contact the outlet screws when you replace the normal cover plate.

I solved that problem... bought a couple of "old work" boxes and placed them where I wanted. ...Jim Thompson

And you are always going to own this house? What about other people who may live in the house in the future?

Bill

Worry about it if and when I sell. Been here 20+ years and the mortgage is paid off and there's no incentive to leave. The land the house is on is worth 30X what the house is worth too...

Someone would have to stick their finger in the lamp socket, to get what is a non-lethal current, presuming they'd be grounded also.

It could happen, but I won't worry about it.

default wrote on 11/30/2017 11:51 AM:

Just the other day when I was visiting a friend in Tennessee she had a fixture with a broken bulb base. I used a wine cork to get it out, but I've seen others do this with a butter knife. In fact decades ago my manager at a restaurant taught me to use a butter knife with a cloth wrapped around the tip to do this. The requirement to make this safe is to turn *off* the switch. What happens if you die before you sell the house. A neighbor comes over to help your wife and is severely injured getting a broken bulb socket out. Your wife is sued and loses the house... oh, of course, then she won't have to worry about it anymore.

What happens if thermonuclear war breaks out? What if, what if.

Life is full of traps but this one isn't high on my list, I worry much more about the boiler at work where they remove the safety valves because "valves may harbor bacteria and contaminate the product." The boiler holds about 5 gallons of water and depends on water flow to keep the 50 KW heater from flashing the water to steam and over-pressuring the system. I designed the thermostat - it takes ~6 minutes for the water to make one circuit of the piping, and the inlet can't fall below 98C. I wouldn't sign-off until there were safety valves on the inlet and outlet, but the last time I was there the valves are gone...

I've heard of people using potatoes to remove broken lamps too.

It is easy to install ground fault circuit breakers in the service panel.

I don't care, it's not my house and not my wife. Sounds like you don't care much about them either.

Funny how different you are at work and at home.

Oh come on... My wife (a scientist) is knowledgeable about electricity. I doubt there is anyone that I know who is stupid enough to stick a finger in a lamp socket. And that's what it would take to get a current limited shock. Now, I'm not that familiar with your acquaintances...

At work it's a different story. The procedures they use are so complex that I wish they'd start using check lists. In the case of the boiler I mentioned, there's a separate disconnect, and circuit breaker, for the circulating pump and check valves isolate the water loop from the water supply. Just the expansion of the water with heating is already pressuring the system - and the stainless steel piping is taking the brunt of the pressure. They use it every day, not every 2+ years the bulb will last if left on 24/7, and the people using it are not the brightest.

The danger, as I see it, is if someone were to start using glass envelope incandescent lamps and did actually break one off in the socket, and tried to remove it with a metal tool, and was standing on a conductive surface barefoot, when the light was turned off they may get a non-lethal shock, fall off the conductive surface and injure themselves on the way down.

It could happen just that way. Then too, I might be standing in a Kansas cornfield, being harassed by a Great White shark, while simultaneously struck by lightening and winning the lottery. I mean it could happen....

I did get a GFI limited shock once. Coffee maker in a hotel bathroom and I was barefoot. I thought I'd filch a cup of coffee before it was done. (my home coffee maker has a valve built in so it allows that without any loss) In the case of the hotel's coffee maker it doesn't have a valve so enough water dripped down into the hot plate and managed to get to the heater and I got a pretty good zap, but didn't drop the carafe, so I figure that changing a lamp will be reasonably safe.

I know you like to hear "don't compromise safety," but the truth is, we make those compromises every day and do it willingly and without thinking. I worked power line construction, industrial construction, railroad construction, and was in the Navy with high voltages in small metal rooms filled with 40 KW transmitters, when I wasn't building 100 KV Tesla coils... Compromising safety is called risk management in the real world. You reduce risk to the lowest practical value, not the lowest possible value. Same thing everywhere around you - airlines could conceivably design escape pods but you'd still die in a take off or landing mishap.

The best safety feature you have is your mind.

If you really think you shouldn't compromise safety, don't get out of bed, and pray that a tornado doesn't hit - you'll still die of muscle atrophy or diabetes or some other malady caused by staying safe.

You like to argue - me too. Debate for the sake of the mental challenge - I'd derive the same amount of pleasure taking the opposite viewpoint and arguing it. It is a strength and a weakness.

Denial is not just a river in Egypt. There is a reason why we have wiring codes. I can't make you follow them, but if anyone is ever hurt by this circuit you will be responsible. I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining the facts. You want to believe your own set of facts and are happy to involve emotional nonsense to try to make a point. Whatever.

I think the wiring codes are a compromise and allow morons to call themselves electricians. For instance, I had a light switch installed at the top of an attic stair. (one of those pull-down trap door thingees) When the house was re-wired for 3 - wire ground (very old house) an electrician moved it because he said the code didn't allow light switches to be mounted so close to the floor. He promptly moved it to the only other good mounting place away from the stairs though and made things less safe because now you had to fumble around searching for it in the dark, or climb up holding a flashlight.

I think the justification for the switch height was so you couldn't accidentally kick it or something. But in this case there's be no way to kick or brush against it unless you could levitate in the vicinity because the only other choice was to fall through the trap door. There was no floor, to speak of, in the area.

I'm guessing you are obstreperous by nature and probably very hard to live with.

No, I don't like being controlled and you seem to be the same. Where we differ is that you have all manner of reasons for ignoring safety regulations. Your attic light has nothing whatsoever to do with the lack of safety of your ceiling light kludge. It's your house and you are responsible for any harm that comes to anyone because of your reckless disregard for simple safety codes.