Remote control for dust collector

Hi Hank,

I have a simular need, but have yet to plumb or wire my system. I'm concerned with gate valves to seal the vacuum system when a particular machine is not in use, and help focus all the power of the system to only machines currently in use. My plan has been to install gate valves at each machine, with 12v micro switches to control the contactor on the vac. If desired, and delayed off relay could allow the vac to run for a while. I plan to just run a low voltage wire with each duct.

Google "current transformer" or search s.e.d.,s.e.b. for it.

a current transformer would work great for this. Question is ..do you have the necessary basic electronics experience needed to wire them up as a sensor circuit to fire the appropriate relays? Are you using rotary solenoids on your vacuum system or maybe servos, actuators or pneumatics? I'm just curious as to how advanced your wanting to get with the vacuum valves at each tool station. motors can be hard on smaller electronics relays. Try looking into SSR's like the 40 amp 240 vac type from Crydom. They can be found cheap on ebay and purcahsed new for about $25 each at industrial electronic supply houses. This isnt hard to do, just a little patience to do it right.

Eric, that was a different thread where somebody was asking about how to control multiple blast gates (what you're calling "vacuum valves").

I remember reading it, but I don't remember whether it was on s.e.d. or s.e.b. Anyway, I see no mention of blast gates in the original post to this thread. It looks like he just wants to turn the dust collector on.

thanks kell

the original poster , your right, didnt say anything about that but Maxwell did, my post was aimed at him.. sorry for the confusion.

Take care --eric

Hi Kell,

I was just recomending gate valves to Hank. I'm planning to attach micro switches to a valve like this:

and let the gate valve kick a 12v solenoid to turn the dust collector on and off with the gate valve. You just run a low voltage wire with each vac duct, and if any gate valve is open, the collector would be turned on.

Yes. But it is simpler to do some wiring at the tool. (see below)

Yes. But it is simpler to use low voltage wiring to each tool. (see below)

Probably the easiest way is to install a junction box and receptacle at each tool. Wire it so that switching the tool on also switches the receptacle on. Then plug a wallwart into the receptacle at each tool and run the output of each wall wart through a diode to operate a relay installed at the dust collector:

Wallwart1 --->|---+ | Wallwart2 --->|---+ | Wallwart3 --->|---+ | Wallwart4 --->|---+ | [Relay] | Wallwart common --+

You can route the low voltage wiring right alongside the the power cord, maybe use split loom tubing to make it look nice. For the 220 volt tool you can use a travel converter to step down to 110 and plug the wall wart into that. If a neutral is included with the 220 volt circuit, the travel converter won't be necessary.

Ed

It was right under my nose, I just didn't look hard enough!

it's called a current transformer and requires that you divert one of the condutors that carry power to the tool through it

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Bye.
   Jasen

Yes. This used to be done with computers, power the computer on and all of the peripherals would power on also. Typically a small resistor in the hot lead (NEVER the neutral) fires a triac which feeds the other outlets.

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--- As usual, Homer, you got it wrong.

Here's his post:

I have a wood shop in my basement and would like to automate the startup/shutdown of my dust collector unit. It is a 220v unit plumbed to 4 separate power tools (3 are 110v, 1 is 220v). My ideal configuration would be to have the dust collector start immediately when any of the 4 tools are powered on, and remain on for a few seconds after the tool is turned off.

I have been using a keychain remote control with an X10 system to manually control the unit. For some reason I just fried the 2nd appliance control module since I've had the system. Instead of replacing the manual system I am hoping to automate.

I am familiar with electronics, including relays and timer circuits, and am interested in any sugggestions on how to accompish this task. In particular, is there a way to detect when the motor in any of the tools starts without having to wire directly into the switch? Is there a way to do this without running additional wiring to all of the tools?

Thanks in advance for any advice/guidance!

Notice that you got it exactly backwards: He wants to start his dust collector when any of four tools are turned on, not start all four tools when the dust collector's turned on, eh?

To the OP:

What you're asking for is possible and easy to do.

Start with a current switch like this:

and, at the breaker box, shut off the breakers going to the four tools you want to control, then disconnect their neutral (white) wires from neutral, run them through the hole in the current switch and reconnect them to neutral.

Now, when you turn the breakers back on and any of the tools is turned on the current switch will turn on also, and you can use its output to drive a relay which will turn on the dust collector. One simple way to do that would be to locate , in the breaker box, the hot line going to the dust collector and to put the relay normally-open contacts in series with it. That way you could leave the dust collector's switch ON all the time and the relay would control it. Over the last couple of days or so a few OFF-DELAY circuits have been posted (either here or in sed, I believe) which you could use to get the dust collector to stay on for a few seconds after the tool was turned off.

Is that circuit description good enough, or would you like a schematic?

Caveat: If you're not comfortable working with AC mains it would be a really, really, good idea to have an electrician do the wiring for you. It may also be _required_ if your local code or your homeowner's insurance demands it. Don't take a chance...

-- JF

As usual, YOU got it wrong. It is a code violation to put any choke in the neutral line. Only a fool risks his fire insurance.

You could add back to back shunted LEDs in each hot line and use them to trigger the electronic switch perhaps, but even simpler is to add the appropriate relay to each tool and parallel wire the relay contacts to switch the collector fan on. No electronics needed so it should run forever.

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Sorry, Charlie, it\'s not _in_ the neutral line, its _around_ all
four of them.  The secondary of a transformer, dontcha know.

But, if that gets your panties in a bunch, then the hots could be
used as well;  just a little more of a PITA to have to work at the
breakers is all...

Doesn't matter, it is still a code violation except inside a device like a GFCI which has been CSA approved.

Insurance companies invent reasons not to pay. Never give the bastards an easy out.

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Forgive me for not believing you, but since you seem to lay claim to
being the HVAC tech around here, can you quote the section of code
which prohibits it?

Believe what you wish. Try to find an electrician who can prove it is allowed.

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Asking a stupid fucking electrician, like you, for his opinion isn\'t
what I asked for.

What I asked for was a reference which indicated that installing a
non-galvanically connected current transformer on the neutral side
of a circuit was prohibited.

Since you\'re hedging, as always, I can only assume that you looked
it up and found that you were wrong and are now trying, desperately,
to make it seem like it\'s someone else\'s responsibility to save you.

Read the regulations yourself. Every electrician knows you don't interrupt a neutral.

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Where do you get the idea that it is interrupting the neutral? I work in the concert business and a company called Motion Control Labs manufactures a industry wide acceptable power distro system that uses a current transformer to monitor the neutral load amps. Are you thinking that it is electrically connected to the neutral ? Its a toroid donut that the cable passes thru and it presents virtually no loading of the neutral.