need help in designing circuit

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Hello, I just finished creating a circuit, it's a drum machine, but
I've done the whole thing on a solderless breadboard.  I was wondering
if anybody could give me any tips on how I could go about transferring
my design onto a PCB.  If anyone could reccomend any software or such
that is good for this?  I have a copy of PSPICE, but I'm not sure if
that's mainly for simulations.  I've seen the "do it yourself" kits
with the photo-resist chemicals and everything, but that seems
potentially messy and complicated.  I was wondering if anyone was
familiar with the places that you send the schematic to and then they
mail you your PCB?

Thanks
Joshua


Re: need help in designing circuit


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There aren't places that you just mail a schematic and get back a board
-- there are PCB houses to which you can send a board design and get
back a board.  The process works quite well, it costs way less to have a
few boards popped out than having a technician build one from scratch,
and you have a 'real' board.

But you still have to do the layout with a PCB layout tool, and that's
not trivial if you haven't done it before.

If I have a circuit that is working right on a breadboard, and I want to
make a one-off permanent circuit, and I don't care to make it smaller, I
hie myself down to Radio Shack and buy one of those PCBs that has the
same hole and solder pattern as a breadboard, and I transfer it -- wires
and all -- to the PCB just exactly the way it was on the breadboard.

This is in the US -- I'm not sure if you can get those convenient little
PCBs anywhere else.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: need help in designing circuit



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Try Kicad. Find it here:

http://www.lis.inpg.fr/realise_au_lis/kicad/index.html

Re: need help in designing circuit



panfilero wrote:
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Hi, Joshua.  I'd second the motion that the easiest thing to do would
be to use the Radio Shack perfboard (Model: 276-170, #3.29 ea) and just
transfer over directly.

But everyone has a yen to try making an etched board at leat once.
Hey, get it out of your system -- it's not too expensive anymore, if
waiting a while for board turnaround is OK with you.

Try Express PCB.  They've got free proprietary CAD software, and have a
starter deal where you can get three 2.5" x 3.8" boards made for just
$51.  You might be amazed what can actually fit on a board that size.

http://www.expresspcb.com/index.htm

Many swear by them.  Many swear at them.  They do go to some lengths to
make it easy for newbies, and engineering students doing senior
projects.  Just remember their software locks you in to buying from
them or redoing the board in another CAD package -- the files are
incompatible with other CAD software.

Good luck
Chris


Re: need help in designing circuit



Chris wrote:
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True not all CAD software are compatable however some are like CADkey
and AutoCAD. AutoCAD has applications for electronic drawing and with
some work CADkey is also available to draw electronic design. Using
standard Electronic shop practices you can adapt any CAD software
drawings as circuit board drawings. How do you thing electronic
drawings are made? By hand? haw haw...
Here is a list of CAD programs
Active-Cad
Active-VHDL
Alias
ANVIL EXPRESS
Ashlar Vellum
AutoCAD
Avanti
Bentley
CADAM
CADDS
Cadence
Cadence Allegro
Cadkey
Cadmax
CADnetix
Cadstar
CALMA
CATIA
CoCreate
Computervision
Designcad 2000
HP Solid D
I-DEAS
Ironcad
Macdraft
Mentor Graphics
Microstation
Orcad
PADS

P-CAD

PDMS

PDS

PRO/E

PTC

Rhino

SDRC

Smartsketch

Solid Designer


Solid Edge

Solidworks

Step

Synopsys

Tango

Turbocad

Veribest

Verelog

VesaCAD

VHDL

VHDL Warp

View Logic


Re: need help in designing circuit



snipped-for-privacy@msn.com wrote:
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www.cadsoftusa.com makers of Eagle has a lite version. FREE limited to
2-sided pcb.

The OP seems to be a newbie and those other packages are way too
expensive for someone just experimenting. Eagle has a usenet newsgroup,
so plenty of support if you need it.Look for the tutorial pdf file on
their website.

Problem with expresspcb is, you can not make gerber files, you are
STUCK with their crap. stay clear away from them.


Re: need help in designing circuit



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If you're going to do it often I'd recommend you learn how to use EAGLE
and go with PCB Express (pcbexpress.com -- they're different from
expresspcb.com, and I always get the wrong URL).  The learning curve is
steeper with EAGLE, but EAGLE will give you industry-standard Gerber
format files that you can shop around anywhere.

OTOH, if ease of use is of paramount importance, use Express PCB and
their baby CAD software.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: need help in designing circuit


Whoa! I appreciate all the responses, I didn't think it was gonna be
this complicated to get my schematic over to PCB format (I'm new to all
this).  This is something that I would like to get into, so I am
willing to invest some time and energy to learning some of the better
software than taking an easy way out of this.  I have access to a copy
of OrCad 10.5, if I learn how to use this and draw my schematic on it,
would this give me a file that I could send somewhere to have it made?
I mean if I'm willing to invest some time and energy into learning
software for circuit designing, what is a good, generally universely
accepted type of program to go with?

much thanks
Joshua


Re: need help in designing circuit


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I have used Eagle and Kicad and _both_ are excellent, but as with _all_
real CAD programs they have a sharp learning curve for those who have
never laid out a board before. [I've also used the very expensive and
hard to use stuff from others ;) ]

Kicad has a schematic capture module although I actually *like* some
features of OrCad (ok, so I'm a masochist) and you can use that and the
integrated flow to go from design to gerber - same with Eagle AFAIK. I
think you  can import a netlist into Kicad, so it would be a matter of
generating the right netlist out of Orcad if you use that.

If you want to do any serious designs, then you'll need to learn layout
and layout tools sooner or later anyway - you might as well do it with
something you *already know works*.

Cheers

PeteS

Re: need help in designing circuit



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With any electronic CAD program, you have to both draw your schematic,
and lay out the PC board based on that schematic.  The PC layout
program will normally produce "Gerber" files that can be sent off to
almost any board shop to get the boards made.

There may be some contract board layout shops who will produce a board
layout from your schematic and specs, but I expect that they will be
much too expensive for hobby use.



Re: need help in designing circuit



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Depending on the complexity, you might want to do this by hand.
I have used various CAD programs, and they make the job much
simpler, but the problem is that they have a big learning curve,
especially the first one you encounter.  If you expect to be doing
more of this work, then investing the time to learn a program may
make sense.  But there is also a certain satisfaction to doing it
by hand, and it's not too hard if the board can be single-sided.
(You may need a few jumpers to make that work.)  

Use graph paper with a 10th-inch grid. Draw copper as black
lines, component outlines in red. You may need to redraw
several times as you try different layouts.  The hardest parts
are the purely-digital sections, since there are no components
to break a trace and allow another to cross in the same plane.
I typically do rough sketches on plain paper just to get an idea
of the best approach.  If you don't care about jumpers (if you are
only making one of these) this can be much easier.  Otherwise,
you can spend (waste) a lot of time optimizing.

Then you can make the whole thing with a Sharpie marker,
a dental bur in a Dremel tool, and ferric chloride etchant.
Full details at  
    www.daqarta.com/lptxh.hrm

Hope this helps!



Bob Masta
dqatechATdaqartaDOTcom
 
            D A Q A R T A
Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis
           www.daqarta.com
Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Signal Generator
    Science with your sound card!

Re: need help in designing circuit


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Have a look at  http://homepage.ntlworld.com/g.knott/elect441.htm

Re: need help in designing circuit
responding to
http://www.electrondepot.com/electronics/need-help-in-designing-circuit-50956-.htm
> panfilero wrote:
>
>  
>  
> Hello, I just finished creating a circuit, it\'s a drum machine, but
> I\'ve done the whole thing on a solderless breadboard.  I was wondering
> if anybody could give me any tips on how I could go about transferring
> my design onto a PCB.  If anyone could reccomend any software or such
> that is good for this?  I have a copy of PSPICE, but I\'m not sure if
> that\'s mainly for simulations.  I\'ve seen the "do it
> yourself" kits
> with the photo-resist chemicals and everything, but that seems
> potentially messy and complicated.  I was wondering if anyone was
> familiar with the places that you send the schematic to and then they
> mail you your PCB?
>  
> Thanks
> Joshua
>  
>  
Not all CAD software work consecutively with CAM, however your best bet is PADS
which is a process I was taught at AAI Learning Center in Glendale Arizona.  
This Low tech solution will apply to the circuit board manufacturing. You will
take a Mylar and apply Rubber strips in the pattern you have the capacitors,
Resistors and Relays on the board. The process will be applied to copper coated
fiberglass. Then acetate will be applied with a photo-scoped process etching the
copper in a solution keeping only the copper applied to the board. Feed-thru
holes are a little bit harder. You may layer the underside or sandwich the
copper boards into a layered board in between the fiberglass polyester board.
The back side of the board having the same process as done to the other side,
this process repeated to the different layers. The board may be reduced to save
space and material, and preferred by the manufactured. I know AutoCAD has this
feature in its program as well as other workstation programs. The following are
a list of process software and you should do your homework. These CAD programs
may not have a CAM process which stands for computer automated
machinery.Active-Cad
Active-VHDL
Alias
ANVIL EXPRESS
Ashlar Vellum
AutoCAD
Avanti
Bentley
CADAM
CADDS
Cadence
Cadence Allegro
Cadkey
Cadmax
CADnetix
Cadstar
CALMA
CATIA
CoCreate
Computervision
Designcad 2000
HP Solid D
I-DEAS
Ironcad
Macdraft
Mentor Graphics
Microstation
Orcad
PADS
P-CAD
PDMS
PDS
PRO/E
PTC
Rhino
SDRC
Smartsketch
Solid Designer
Solid Edge
Solidworks
Step
Synopsys
Tango
Turbocad
Veribest
Verelog
VesaCAD
VHDL
VHDL Warp
View Logic
Hard copy is also a process which might be difficult so contact the software
dealer to find out which features might apply to you. I most like Bentley and
AutoCAD. These are the leaders in IBM Compatible computers. The main CAM
software may not apply to the board manufacturer .So contact a reliable machine
shop to assist you. You can work together to create the jigs you will need in
the manufacturing process. At the rubber plant I worked for used a manufacturer
in Ohio which worked with CAM. I also worked with Whites Steel a part of Virgin
Aerospace. The Fiberglass company I worked for worked with Chinese Manufactures,
and the best work for these type of plans are in the Philippines. I wish you
luck and hope you can make some money for the boards or at least get a good
inventor. By the way are you a tinkerer or just an avid fan of electricity.  
I look forward to any future contact. I may be reached through any computer
using snipped-for-privacy@msn.com. Please feel free to contact me. If you are unable to
get a reply please be aware I receive 200 emails a day and can not sift through
all the junk mail. I am only on the computer 2 hours a day and answer about 2 %
of replies for information. I read about 20 to 30% of my email and go to the
next task in my day. I look forward to any futer contacts, questions or
comments.
Best Regards, Richard B. Torres
8595 Philbin Avenue, Arlanza , Arlington, Riverside County, California,
92503-2278.  Majesty Village, Riverside.


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