ground wire

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I have a big mess.  A person took off my carburetor on my car and I can
not find the person.  The carburetor was put back on my car but there is 1
wire from the fuel cut off solenoid that is not connected to the car.  The
solenoid is part of the carburetor.  I can not find any person who knows
where the wire goes.  I think - the wire is black - it connects to ground
or negative.

If I can not find where the wire goes I can try to connect the wire to a
metal part of the car - may be this acts like a ground - may be acts like
the wire is connected to negative part of the electric circuit.  May be
this is dumb.  I do not know a lot about this like I do not know if all
grounds are the same.  I need good ideas.  Thank you for all answers.

Kurt Stocklmeir


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Re: ground wire
kurtstocklmeir wrote on 6/21/2017 5:07 PM:
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My truck stopped running one day on the highway.  I got out and not having  
any idea what I was expecting to find I opened the hood and looked around.  
After a few minutes I found a wire dangling from a part of the engine where  
a carburetor would go if it had a carburetor.  I don't recall for sure, but  
I guess it was from some solenoid.  Whatever it was connected to I figured  
it was a ground wire since it had a metal loop on the end to go under a  
screw.  I can only assume the thing it was mounted to was somehow insulated  
from the main part of the engine by a paper or composite gasket on the  
manifold.  So I found a screw I could put it under (I don't recall what  
happened to the original screw) and tightened it down.  Sure enough the  
engine started and I was back to going down the road.

I am pretty confident your wire is also a ground wire and should be screwed  
to a grounded part of the engine (which is nearly all of it unless some part  
is insulated by a paper gasket with no grounding wire).  I seem to recall  
some model of Subaru had excessive corrosion in the heads and extra ground  
straps on the engine was the cure.  Grounding can be very important.

--  

Rick C

Re: ground wire
On 6/22/17 5:25 AM, rickman wrote:
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Although the OP says the solenoid screws into the carby ( or is part of  
it ) and there is only 1 wire I would have to go along with it being a  
"hot" or positive wire. he really needs someone with a clue.

Re: ground wire
kurtstocklmeir wrote on 6/21/2017 5:07 PM:
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I guess I should ask what is on the end of the wire.  Is it a connector or a  
metal loop that goes under a screw or just bare wire?  If it's a connector  
it likely needs to plug into the mating connector.  Is there another wire  
from the solenoid for power?  If not, this is likely the hot wire and should  
connect to whatever activates the solenoid.

--  

Rick C

Re: ground wire
On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:07:58 -0500, "kurtstocklmeir"

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Take it to a _real_ mechanic... dealership will be most accurate.
        
                                        ...Jim Thompson
--  
| James E.Thompson                                 |    mens     |
| Analog Innovations                               |     et      |
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Re: ground wire
On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:07:58 -0500, "kurtstocklmeir"

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My best guess, and this is only a guess, is that the wire from the
solenoid is not a ground wire but is instead supposed to be connected
to a wire that is energized when the ignition is on. If the solenoid
screws directly into the metal body of the carb and there is just one
wire coming from the solenoid then I am as sure as I can be without
seeing the assembly or knowing the make, model, engine size, and year
of the car that the wire should be connected to a positive wire that
is energized when the ignition is on. So look for a wire that has a
connector of the opposite sex of the connector on the end of the
solenoid wire. I suspect your message was a troll but I'm a trusting
type.
Eric

Re: ground wire
On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 16:07:58 -0500, "kurtstocklmeir"

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Count the number of wires from the solenoid.  If it equals 2 than that
wire can be ground or hot - get a manual with the wiring diagram... Go
to the library and check out their Climer's or other aftermarket
manuals.  Check on line....

If there's only one wire it is definitely hot, and expected to actuate
with the ignition circuit.

This would be the "anti-dieseling" solenoid?  Cuts fuel flow or shuts
down the idle air to prevent the car from running when it is turned
off and the engine is still very hot?  Probably a hot wire that is
turned on for a period of time after the ignition is switched off.

Usually you find a crimped on ring if it is designed to bolt to the
body or ground, and some plastic connector if it goes to the wiring
harness.  Color is only a clue if you have a diagram with the colors
labeled.

Re: ground wire
Thank you for all answers.  I am going insane.  This carburetor has been
bad for about 1 year.  I have a 1987 Honda civic 1.5 l.  The car is about
30 years old - I can not find parts for the car and I can not find any
person who knows how to fix it.  I sent the carburetor to a factory to
rebuild the carburetor.  I got the carburetor back from the factory.  The
fuel cut off solenoid goes on the back of the carburetor.  The fuel cut
off solenoid is suppose to open when the car is turned and close when the
car is turned off - it helps to stop the carburetor from flooding when the
car turns off.  1 of my friends took off the carburetor from my car but
they left the U.S. for a certain amount of time.  They are not back.  1
more of my friends put the carburetor back on my car but they do not know
where the wire of the fuel cut off solenoid goes.  I just do not
understand what is going on - I have a degree for physics and I do not
know any thing about cars. 2 wires black color and yellow color come out
of the fuel cut off solenoid and they end with a plastic connection.  This
plastic connection goes together with a plastic connection with a wire
that ends with just 1 wire black color.  I do not understand why 2 wires
change to 1 wire.  This wire is not connected to the car but the car turns
on - it is not connected to the car because I can not find any person who
knows where it goes.  I can not understand this - how is the solenoid
getting energy.  Some fuel cut off solenoids have 1 wire and the
carburetor acts like a wire because the carburetor is connected to the
car.  I guess when this is done it is connected to a ground.  I do not
know - can this be connected to positive.  I do not know - do these
solenoids - just open when the car turns on and closes when the car turns
off or opens when the car turns on, opens more when the speed increases -
closes when the car turns off, closes more when speed decreases.  Does the
solenoid open more and close more when speed changes.  Thank you for any
answers.  To an extreme I need help.
Kurt Stocklmeir
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Re: ground wire
I am from the U.S.  1 wire coming from my fuel cut off solenoid is yellow
and 1 wire is black.  I think in the U.S. a green yellow wire is a
protective ground.  My yellow wire is all yellow it does not have any
green color.  May be this yellow wire is a protective ground wire.  The
car is a 1987 Honda civic Japan may use different colors.  I do not know a
lot about protective grounds.  I guess if the yellow wire from my fuel cut
off solenoid is a protective ground it goes to a plastic connection and
stops.  I guess if the yellow wire is a protective ground the black wire
from my fuel cut off solenoid sends energy into the fuel cut off solenoid.
 My car turns on but the wires are not connected to the car - the yellow
wire and black wire go to a plastic connection - this goes to a plastic
connection that ends with 1 black wire - this wire is not connected to any
thing.  Thank you for all answers.

Kurt Stocklmeir
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Re: ground wire
@Electronics-Related says...
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Wire colors do not mean anything except the particular device they are  
in.  A car wire color is often just for the particular model they are  
in.  Forget about how it is a protective ground.  A car does not have  
one. They are not like the standards used for house wiring. It would be  
like trying to play baseball on a field layed out for football.

Get a multimeter if you do not have one.  You can get one for less than  
$ 20 that is good enough for car and home use.  Check to see if either  
of the two wires from the solenoid are already connected internally to  
the case (ground) of the solenoid.  One wire will show almost no  
resistance and the other will show a slightly higher resistance.  If  
grounded, the low resistance is the grounded wire.  If neiter wire is  
connected to the solenoid case you can use either wire you want.  One  
wire (the ungrounded wire if one is grounded) goes to the connector that  
will have poewr on it when the switch is in the run position.  Ground  
the other wire to the metel ( frame, motor) of the car.  


Re: ground wire
Ralph Mowery wrote on 6/22/2017 5:55 PM:
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What he said.  The green/yellow protective ground wire is for equipment  
wired to 120 VAC.  This color code is not used in cars.

As others have said, the solenoid needs two connections, one for power and  
one for ground.  Focus on that as you try to figure out how to wire it up.


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If you have a Harbor Freight nearby you can get a meter for $6 or free (with  
purchase) if you have a coupon from the paper.


Quoted text here. Click to load it

If I can expand on this, I would want to figure out what is going on in the  
connector that seems to convert the two wires (yellow and black from the  
solenoid) to a single wire.  I would suggest that you use the multimeter to  
measure resistance between the pins in each connector.  I expect on the  
solenoid side the wires will be connected by a resistance of some few ohms,  
at least 10, but I would expect more like 100 ohms or so.  Then the two pins  
in the other half of the connector, the one that ends with a single black  
wire, may be shorted with a very low resistance or there may be a wire  
broken off.  Is there a hole in the connector next to where the black wire  
comes out that could have had a yellow wire at one time?  Is there a second  
pin in that hole?  Is there a yellow wire nearby connected to nothing on  
this end?

It could help if you could take some photos and post them somewhere for us  
to see.  It is very hard to diagnose the problem with the little info you  
can describe to us.

Just to help you understand, it is common for auto makers to use the metal  
chassis of the car as a ground connection.  But this is not always done for  
various reasons, including that the device in question may not be  
electrically connected to the metal of the car.  In those cases they use  
ground wires.  It is hard to tell if this solenoid is using the mounting as  
its ground connection or if a wire is being used.  The fact that there are  
two wires coming from the solenoid says to me they are using a wire ground  
and not a mounting ground.  This is what we need to figure out.  So  
measuring the resistance to ground of each of the wires would be useful.

BTW, there is no reason why the solenoid would be a proportional control  
opening only part way.  These things are typically on or off, open or closed.

--  

Rick C

Re: ground wire
On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 5:55:17 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
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I know little about car solenoids, would they put a flyback diode  
across the coil?  (Maybe measure coil resistance both ways.)

George H.  

Re: ground wire
On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 15:25:40 -0500, "kurtstocklmeir"

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http://readingrat.net/wiring-diagram-2004-honda-civic-ex-coupe/honda-wiring-diagrams-civic-honda-free-wiring-diagrams/

Not your vehicle I know, but I ain' got the time to hunt for it now.

ALL the solenoids in the engine compartment look like the black wire
is ground and the colored wire is hot.

Search for it on line.  It takes a little time, but I always manage to
find what I need for my 91 truck....

Re: ground wire
On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 15:25:40 -0500, "kurtstocklmeir"

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PS if there's a part number stamped on the solenoid it will give you
some more clues - often the wiring harness, and/or parts for different
models or years of manufacture will be identical.

Re: ground wire
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it it's the only wire from the solenoid Connect it to the "run" circuit, eg:  
the non-points ignition coil terminal

--  
This email has not been checked by half-arsed antivirus software  

Re: ground wire
On 6/21/2017 4:07 PM, kurtstocklmeir wrote:
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You may want to check the wiring diagram for your vehicle.

Strangely enough, the 1987 Honda wiring diagrams are available at  
Autozone (  
http://www.autozone.com/repairinfo/repairguide/repairGuideContent.jsp?pageId09%00c15280061b0f
) so you may want to start there.

RwP


Re: ground wire
I plan to say a lot of prayers for all of you.  Thank you for all
answers.


Fuel cut off solenoids can be used to stop a carburetor from flooding.
There is a small round piece of metal that is part of the fuel cut off
solenoid.  When the car is not turned on the piece of metal stops gas from
getting in the carburetor.  When carburetors were used for cars if this
solenoid broke the car would not turn on because gas could not get in the
carburetor.  When the car turns on the solenoid gets energy and the
solenoid makes the piece of metal move a little out of the carburetor -
this lets gas get to the carburetor.  When the car turns off the solenoid
does not get any energy and the solenoid stops working - the piece of
metal moves back toward the carburetor and this stops gas from getting to
the carburetor.  This helps to stop the carburetor from flooding.


The wire of the fuel cut off solenoid on my carburetor is not connected to
any thing on my car.  The carburetor is on my car and the fuel cut off
solenoid is connected to the carburetor.


I can not understand - the car turns on - gas getting to my carburetor -
the solenoid is not getting energy from the wire of my fuel cut off
solenoid because it is not connected to any thing.


1 person said - the solenoid is on or off - the solenoid does not open
more when speed increases and close more when speed decreases - I think
they are right


When my car turns on the idle is about 6000 rpm - it is suppose to be
about 900.


I thought may be if the solenoid opens more closes more with speed
changing and if the wire is not connected to any thing the computer can
not send information about speed to the solenoid and the solenoid opens
more than normal - this can not be true - I think the person is right -
the solenoid is on or off - it does not open more close more as speed
changes - this can not cause my idle to be 6000 rpm


My opinion - the factory messed up.  I am suppose to have a warranty and I
better get the carburetor back to them fast.  I did not want to make a
mistake saying the company made a mistake and they charge me more money.


Thank you to an extreme for all answers.

Kurt Stocklmeir
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Re: ground wire
kurtstocklmeir wrote on 6/23/2017 4:08 PM:
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I can't say for sure as you have not provided any pictures of your carb or  
the solenoid, but sounds like this is the idle circuit fuel cut off.  That  
means without power the idle circuit in your carb is not getting any fuel.  
But... it could also be that, as mentioned in the article you reference in  
your other posts, the needle controlled by the solenoid is missing.

If you pay attention to the article you reference you will realize the idle  
cutoff solenoid either cuts off the fuel when not powered, or allows fuel to  
flow when powered.  There is other sources of fuel to the carb even if the  
idle solenoid is off.  They should not allow the engine to run, but it is  
possible.

I don't much believe your engine is idling at 6000 RPM.  That would be  
racing somewhere near if not past redline.  Does the engine sound like it is  
screaming when it is idling?  If so, you clearly have something else going  
on like the throttle stuck open.  You need to fix that first.

The wiring diagram at

http://repairguide.autozone.com/znetrgs/repair_guide_content/en_us/images/0900c152/80/06/1b/18/large/0900c15280061b18.gif

clearly shows two wires from the solenoid.  The black one has to be grounded  
and the wht/yel one is hot.   It actually doesn't matter which is which as  
the solenoid works both ways.  What is important is that you find the mating  
wire the solenoid wire connects to.  Can you take some photos of the  
connectors so we can see what they are doing with the two wires on your car?

I'm not all that familiar with the tricks they play to save a penny in a  
car, but is it possible they are grounding the black wire through the body  
of the connector?  Does it bolt to the chassis?

--  

Rick C

Re: ground wire
This talks about a high idle

http://tomco-inc.com/Tech_Tips/ttt11.pdf

Kurt Stocklmeir
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Re: ground wire
may be the high idle is caused because the wire is not connected to any
thing

http://tomco-inc.com/Tech_Tips/ttt11.pdf

thank you for all answers

Kurt Stocklmeir
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