Choosing a calculator

Buy the cheapest "scientific calculator" you can find, then after you learn what functions you need that you don't have, you'll be better informed to decide if it needs to be replaced by a better model.

Good Luck! Rich

^^^^^^^^

Sorry, but I have to disagree with Rich on this. There's a valid arguement to made for buying an inexpensive calculator. But, if you're going to do calculus, you will be probably be *required* to get a "graphing" scientific calculator. This means a calculator that can graphically plot equations. I'd recommend getting the best, regardless of price. Sure, you can get a cheap calc at first, but you will eventually (trust me) want a better one. Now you've wasted money on the cheap one. More on this later.

To the best of my knowledge, the top two calculators of this type are the TI-89 Titanium and the HP-48g+. There are other lesser ones like Casio, but TI and HP pretty much rule the roost. I'd choose the HP on the simple grounds of RPN, which stand for Reverse Polish Notation ...no joke! This is a method of data entry HP has long favored and seems ass-backwards, at first. But, once you get the hang of it, you'll wonder why anyone would use any other way.

These calculators are powerful computers, probably as powerful as an early i386. You'll find plenty of websites with all manner of ingenious, handy, and just plain silly, programs you can download and use. So, get all the memory you can afford and get a computer interface. Don't try and do an end-run and subsitute a PDA with calculating abilities. It's the graphing function that is critical and I'm unaware of any PDA that does it. Maybe one of the new generation of handheld computers, but I have no experience with them, so cannot advise.

Back to "cheap". If you are on a very tight budget and all you can manage is one of the Casio's, no problem. Do what you have to do. But, you get what you pay for. I have an older HP48gx. These things are bullet proof and with a little care, will last a lifetime. I still use mine almost daily. I was going to suggest looking for one on ebay, but was shocked to discover some sellers are asking almost twice what I payed for mine new. Who knew!?

Anyway, good luck on your ME and I hope this helped. ;)

nb

notbob wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

*snip summary of calculators vs computers and personal experiences*

I have a TI-89 Titanium. I bought it when my TI-80 couldn't do the stuff (mainly matricies) they wanted to do in my math classes. I also used it as a programming platform rather than MATLAB for my Numerical Methods class.

I got mine used on eBay for $100, calculator only. To connect it to the computer, I use a USB cable (with an adapter set--there's only 8 different sizes of the same thing!) I think it was worth the money.

Casios are the cheap way out, and I cannot speak for their quality. As long as you don't abuse a TI calculator, though, you will not wear it out.

Not affiliated with TI, just a satisfied customer.

Puckdropper

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Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

If you have the need for graphing functions and quickly solving systems of equations, quadratics, using matrices, et cetera, a graphing calculator like a few listed already should suffice. As the need arose for me I invested in a TI-89 Titanium. I have friends that use the TI-86 and a few that function fine with TI-83 models. You can compare their functions with available Casio or other equivalents.

I had previously lost a graphing calculator in a classroom and so a quick and rather inexpensive (~15 US dollars in 2004) replacement was a Casio FX-115MSPlus. It has your standard scientific calculator functions, allows you to see the numbers you are entering and also to edit them, decimal-binary-octal-hex conversions, et cetera.

That Casio scientific calc. got me through all of my physics courses and core EE courses without a problem. The TI graphing calc. helped save a lot of time formerly spent on crunching numbers!

-t.

I agree with Rich. Buy a cheap TI with basic graphing functions. One reason is that you won't need most of the functions. The second reason is that you'll get better at math in the long run. Take it from a fellow engineering student: The guys who have the fancy TI Titaniums are the guys who don't remember how to solve even the simplest Laplace transforms.

I agree with the FX-115MS+. Only $15 at Target. Very nice calculator, and can also integrate and use Newton's method (or is it Newton-Raphson?) to solve equations.

However, for the record, I was "forced" to buy a TI-85 back in '97 or so, to help me with my linear algebra homework. (We were encouraged to use calculators that could do Reduced Row Echelon Form, etc.) After a few nights of staying up REALLY late doing my homework manually, I gave in and paid the $100 or so for the calculator.

Michael Darrett

Depends a lot on your school, but I'd second Rich. Get some inexpensive scientific calculator from TI, Casio, ... (solar powered ones are nice - do not run out of power in exams, for one) for the numerical things. One with complex numbers, hyperbolic funcs, basic statistics.

Graphing calculators are basically just toys, IMHO, and their limits are reached quite fast except for problems that are artificially nice and simple. User interface generally is slow and cumbersome, batteries don't last that long. Pencil and paper are often more useful. Instead of a graphing calculator IMHO you'd better invest into Matlab student edition or Octave on the free side to get things done. For the real calculations and programming, modeling, you'll probably be using Matlab or Maple anyway, also in classes. (well, depends on school...)

- Jan

That's a no brainer... TI-86 or a HP-48GX

Yeah...they are a little old, but both have bullet proof reliability and have all the horsepower you need to get you through school.

I also have a TI-89 and a HP 49g+. The 89 is OK but they with the lousy contrast in colors used on the faceplate, under some lighting conditions they are next to impossible to read.

The 49g+ has a nice display and is feature rich. Too bad it is a poorly build piece of crap. I have no idea what the hell HP was th> Hello evry1,

Get one that uses Reverse Polish Notation. That may limit you to Hewlett Packard.

R >

I'd choose the HP on

Agreed 100%. The others are a pain in the arse.

R

Is the HP 11C still around? I have had mine for years and it is still only on its second set of batteries.

R

Dunno.

If there is, GRAB IT!!! Anyth> > That's a no brainer... TI-86 or a HP-48GX

Igor, the only question I have is concerning the newer calc's speed. Despite all the great things about my HP48gx, it always drove me crazy waiting for the thing to plot. Graphing even the simplest quadratic was maddeningly slow. Are the newer generation calcs appreciably faster?

No, I'm not selling my HP48gx!! ;)

nb

What advantages does Reverse Polish Notation give a student? I have not [to my knowledge] come across that before and am curious what type of situations and computations it can be used for.

-t.

Roger Dewhurst wrote:

"tom" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com:

Practical advantages? None. Everything's in infix notation so you'd constantly have to be converting to RPN and back. If you get a teacher who just breezes through a topic or two, you'll find the time you spend converting to RPN for the calculator wasted.

Geekiness? GeekScore++

Computationally, it makes doing operations with a machine easier, since you can use a stack and a few temp variables. It also eliminates most of the need for order of operations and parenthesis.

Puckdropper

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Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

Get a graphic unit with binary functions included it possible.

--
Real Programmers Do things like this.
http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5

A lot of people will tell you a programable RPN Hewlett Packard or TI. Forgot it, cool toys, but for everyday use they are stupidly complex to use. You need a basic direct entry Casio *without* the new VPAM rubbish or whatever it is they call it that allows you to enter formula on a seperate LCD line. A standard single line LCD 12+2digit is what you need.

The best casio calculator for electronics is the FX-61F, it has inbuilt electronics stuff and a very handy parallel key etc, designed specifically for electronics use. Not made any more I don't think, but you can probably get one on eBay. But any general Casio will be plenty, just make sure it has seperate

1/x, SQRT, +/-, X^2, Log, ln, X^Y, EXP, and ENG/-ENG keys, they are the most used for general electronics work. Having to press the INV button before such common operations is a just a real pain. Most will have BIN/HEX/OCT/DEC conversion and R-P and P-R functions which are handy.

By all means get a real fancy programmable toy, but have a nice simple Casio as well for the simple stuff which will be 99% of your work.

Dave :)

I'd second those comments. RPN is a geek toy, and is a hinderance for everyday use. Many a time an RPN lover has challanged me to a speed dual, and every time my basic Casio wins hands down. Then they invent some obscure function to show that their RPN uses fewer key strokes than a direct entry Casio for that weirdo function, so "obviously it must be better" :->

BTW, I've owned a couple of HP's in my time so I'm not biased.

But most formula you will be given and will see are written so that you can enter it straight into a direct entry algebraic Casio without much thought. If you have to add parenthesis it's usally really obvious and requires little thought, or you simply avoid the paranthesis and use equals instead. Direct entry really shines when you have do operations on single numbers like invert, square root, square stuff etc, one button and it's all done instantly insitu without mucking up your train of thought.

But of course, each to their own. A lof of people simply like RPN.

Dave :)

In plotting, yeah...they are faster...but hey, that is the price you pay for a durable, reliable product. For the record, I had my 48GX since late 1994 and it still looks as good as the day I got it and it works great!! With the exception of the TI-86, how many Titanium 89s or HP 49g+s do you expect to see 12 years from now that were made today and unserviced till then? The 49g+ are junk. Its case is especially crap and the keyboards are garbage. The 49g+ also goes through more batteries. Other than that they are great. The display is a definite improvement.

I don't blame you...I've seen them on some sites selling used ones for as much as $425.00+. You can't get them anymore.

So far as plotting with a 48GX goes, plot when you absolutely have to. Not exactly what most folks don't want to hear; but, considering this from another analogy, do you really need a recoil pad for a .22 long rifle? Or print out a five word sentence? It's a call an individual has to make.

Keep in mind, there are some folks still walking around today who used their trusty slide rules for their math. ;-) I've been kicking the idea around on maybe picking up a few of them. In most instances in electronics, you can get by on three - four significant digit accuracy.