Posted by pcardinale on June 4, 2009, 2:49 pm
wrote:
> > Hi:
> > Let's say there are two AC [Alternating Current] signals of the same
> > voltage and amperage. However, one of them is 50 Hz and the other is
> > 60 Hz.
> > Will the 60 Hz signal contain more watts than the 50 Hz signal?
> > I ask because...
> > ... let's say there are two equally-large laser beams which contain
> > the same light intensity [i.e. number of photon[s]-per-second-per-
> > square-meter]. If one beam is of 400 nm wavelength and the other is
> > 700 nm, the 400 nm light beam will contain more watts than the 700 nm
> > one because a shorter-wavelength [i.e. higher-frequency] photon
> > possesses more energy in it than a longer-wavelength [or lower-
> > frequency] photon.
> > I am wondering if the same analogy applies to electric current.
> It doesn't if you measuring what's called apparent power.
> But, with AC lines people usually think in terms of RMS power.
Actually, it's 'average', not 'RMS'. RMS power is a useless quantity.
RMS is applicable to voltage & current, but not power.
Paul Cardinale
Posted by dave y. on June 5, 2009, 9:53 am
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:49:40 -0700 (PDT), pcardinale@volcanomail.com
wrote:
>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Hi:
>>
>> > Let's say there are two AC [Alternating Current] signals of the same
>> > voltage and amperage. However, one of them is 50 Hz and the other is
>> > 60 Hz.
>>
>> > Will the 60 Hz signal contain more watts than the 50 Hz signal?
>>
>> > I ask because...
>>
>> > ... let's say there are two equally-large laser beams which contain
>> > the same light intensity [i.e. number of photon[s]-per-second-per-
>> > square-meter]. If one beam is of 400 nm wavelength and the other is
>> > 700 nm, the 400 nm light beam will contain more watts than the 700 nm
>> > one because a shorter-wavelength [i.e. higher-frequency] photon
>> > possesses more energy in it than a longer-wavelength [or lower-
>> > frequency] photon.
>>
>> > I am wondering if the same analogy applies to electric current.
>>
>> It doesn't if you measuring what's called apparent power.
>> But, with AC lines people usually think in terms of RMS power.
>Actually, it's 'average', not 'RMS'. RMS power is a useless quantity.
>RMS is applicable to voltage & current, but not power.
>Paul Cardinale
Not to disagree with the point you're trying to make, but as an aside,
RMS power can be used to describe temperature rise situations
such as motor duty cycle.
dave y.
Posted by Don Kelly on June 7, 2009, 10:17 pm
> On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:49:40 -0700 (PDT), pcardinale@volcanomail.com
> wrote:
>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Hi:
>>>
>>> > Let's say there are two AC [Alternating Current] signals of the same
>>> > voltage and amperage. However, one of them is 50 Hz and the other is
>>> > 60 Hz.
>>>
>>> > Will the 60 Hz signal contain more watts than the 50 Hz signal?
>>>
>>> > I ask because...
>>>
>>> > ... let's say there are two equally-large laser beams which contain
>>> > the same light intensity [i.e. number of photon[s]-per-second-per-
>>> > square-meter]. If one beam is of 400 nm wavelength and the other is
>>> > 700 nm, the 400 nm light beam will contain more watts than the 700 nm
>>> > one because a shorter-wavelength [i.e. higher-frequency] photon
>>> > possesses more energy in it than a longer-wavelength [or lower-
>>> > frequency] photon.
>>>
>>> > I am wondering if the same analogy applies to electric current.
>>>
>>> It doesn't if you measuring what's called apparent power.
>>> But, with AC lines people usually think in terms of RMS power.
>>
>>Actually, it's 'average', not 'RMS'. RMS power is a useless quantity.
>>RMS is applicable to voltage & current, but not power.
>>
>>Paul Cardinale
> Not to disagree with the point you're trying to make, but as an aside,
> RMS power can be used to describe temperature rise situations
> such as motor duty cycle.
> dave y.
You are right, but this is a specialized application involved in application
of motors to cyclic loads and the definition is clear to those dealing with
this situation or similar situations where temperature is the critical
limiting factor.
However, somehow, the error that has crept in is that many refer to V*I
(*power factor) where V and I are rms quantities,as rms power which is
nonsense (i.e. Zzbun's statement) Unfortunately this error is quite common
and reflects a lack of basic understanding . - it is this that Paul is
correctly addressing.
--
Don Kelly
dhky@shawcross.ca
remove the x to reply
Posted by zzbunker@netscape.net on June 8, 2009, 4:39 am
> > On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:49:40 -0700 (PDT), pcardin...@volcanomail.com
> > wrote:
> >>wrote:
> >>> > Hi:
> >>> > Let's say there are two AC [Alternating Current] signals of the same
> >>> > voltage and amperage. However, one of them is 50 Hz and the other is
> >>> > 60 Hz.
> >>> > Will the 60 Hz signal contain more watts than the 50 Hz signal?
> >>> > I ask because...
> >>> > ... let's say there are two equally-large laser beams which contain
> >>> > the same light intensity [i.e. number of photon[s]-per-second-per-
> >>> > square-meter]. If one beam is of 400 nm wavelength and the other is
> >>> > 700 nm, the 400 nm light beam will contain more watts than the 700 nm
> >>> > one because a shorter-wavelength [i.e. higher-frequency] photon
> >>> > possesses more energy in it than a longer-wavelength [or lower-
> >>> > frequency] photon.
> >>> > I am wondering if the same analogy applies to electric current.
> >>> It doesn't if you measuring what's called apparent power.
> >>> But, with AC lines people usually think in terms of RMS power.
> >>Actually, it's 'average', not 'RMS'. RMS power is a useless quantity.
> >>RMS is applicable to voltage & current, but not power.
> >>Paul Cardinale
> > Not to disagree with the point you're trying to make, but as an aside,
> > RMS power can be used to describe temperature rise situations
> > such as motor duty cycle.
> > dave y.
> You are right, but this is a specialized application involved in application
> of motors to cyclic loads and the definition is clear to those dealing with
> this situation or similar situations where temperature is the critical
> limiting factor.
> However, somehow, the error that has crept in is that many refer to V*I
> (*power factor) where V and I are rms quantities,as rms power which is
> nonsense (i.e. Zzbun's statement) Unfortunately this error is quite common
> and reflects a lack of basic understanding . - it is this that Paul is
> correctly addressing.
But, people like me have actually worked on high voltage, rather
than
with GE imbeciles, usually tell physicist to fuck off anyway so it
doesn't matter.
> --
> Don Kelly
> d...@shawcross.ca
> remove the x to reply- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Posted by Don Kelly on June 9, 2009, 12:42 am
> > On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:49:40 -0700 (PDT), pcardin...@volcanomail.com
> > wrote:
> >>wrote:
> >>> > Hi:
> >>> > Let's say there are two AC [Alternating Current] signals of the same
> >>> > voltage and amperage. However, one of them is 50 Hz and the other is
> >>> > 60 Hz.
> >>> > Will the 60 Hz signal contain more watts than the 50 Hz signal?
> >>> > I ask because...
> >>> > ... let's say there are two equally-large laser beams which contain
> >>> > the same light intensity [i.e. number of photon[s]-per-second-per-
> >>> > square-meter]. If one beam is of 400 nm wavelength and the other is
> >>> > 700 nm, the 400 nm light beam will contain more watts than the 700
> >>> > nm
> >>> > one because a shorter-wavelength [i.e. higher-frequency] photon
> >>> > possesses more energy in it than a longer-wavelength [or lower-
> >>> > frequency] photon.
> >>> > I am wondering if the same analogy applies to electric current.
> >>> It doesn't if you measuring what's called apparent power.
> >>> But, with AC lines people usually think in terms of RMS power.
> >>Actually, it's 'average', not 'RMS'. RMS power is a useless quantity.
> >>RMS is applicable to voltage & current, but not power.
> >>Paul Cardinale
> > Not to disagree with the point you're trying to make, but as an aside,
> > RMS power can be used to describe temperature rise situations
> > such as motor duty cycle.
> > dave y.
> You are right, but this is a specialized application involved in
> application
> of motors to cyclic loads and the definition is clear to those dealing
> with
> this situation or similar situations where temperature is the critical
> limiting factor.
> However, somehow, the error that has crept in is that many refer to V*I
> (*power factor) where V and I are rms quantities,as rms power which is
> nonsense (i.e. Zzbun's statement) Unfortunately this error is quite common
> and reflects a lack of basic understanding . - it is this that Paul is
> correctly addressing.
But, people like me have actually worked on high voltage, rather
than
with GE imbeciles, usually tell physicist to fuck off anyway so it
doesn't matter.
And who is the physicist? Not me,and the highest voltage that I have played
with was only in the order of 300KV
If youir statement was RMS power as a result of RMS voltage and current then
it is fundamentally wrong. Common usage maybe -for audio salesmen, not for
technicians and engineers in the power industry who should know better.
If I have attributed this to you in error, then I apologise.
--
Don Kelly
dhky@shawcross.ca
remove the x to reply
> > Let's say there are two AC [Alternating Current] signals of the same
> > voltage and amperage. However, one of them is 50 Hz and the other is
> > 60 Hz.
> > Will the 60 Hz signal contain more watts than the 50 Hz signal?
> > I ask because...
> > ... let's say there are two equally-large laser beams which contain
> > the same light intensity [i.e. number of photon[s]-per-second-per-
> > square-meter]. If one beam is of 400 nm wavelength and the other is
> > 700 nm, the 400 nm light beam will contain more watts than the 700 nm
> > one because a shorter-wavelength [i.e. higher-frequency] photon
> > possesses more energy in it than a longer-wavelength [or lower-
> > frequency] photon.
> > I am wondering if the same analogy applies to electric current.
> It doesn't if you measuring what's called apparent power.
> But, with AC lines people usually think in terms of RMS power.