75% Efficiency From Induction Electrification of Roadbeds

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Doesn't sound like they were charging a moving vehicle. If it's stopped, why not used a connector, and get 100% transfer efficiency?

John

Good for a push-bike maybe ?

When you get to several 100s of kW tell me about it.

Graham

Rain, mud, ice, sleet, snow, vehicular damage, vandalism come to mind as a few possible reasons.

Graham

If you read the article you'ld know it could handle buses which are in the 100 kW range.

Bret Cahill

=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Do you see any problems with a moving version? Not that it would necessarily be cost effective but of anything in thermo or fields that would make it impossible or very difficult?

For that matter why not just put a couple rails in the pavement like subways? A vac truck could come by every so often to keep trash from shorting it out. In heavy downpours, ice or snow you burn fuel.

The consumer society was pre peak. We need to adapt to a survival society. Kids shouldn't be playing in interstate traffic anyway.

Bret Cahill

Please explain. A battery is a capital investment for energy storage. Grid electricity is paying for energy as you use it.

These are wholly different concepts. You cannot compare them.

Graham

YES ! VAST problems. Basic to physics which you clearly have never understood, so it's largely pointless trying to explain why.

Graham

Even that is low power for a bus. Continuously 100% of the time ? You're so way out of your depth you don't even know it.

Graham

The field shape would be tricky, especially since a vehicle wouldn't always be in the exact center of a lane. And a road has to be pretty thick to be strong enough to support trucks, so getting a small air gap will be difficult. A few thousand miles of pole pieces and coils and electronic drivers might get a tad expensive, too. Maintenance would be interesting.

If you have a workable topology in mind, post a sketch and some numbers. Words are cheap.

Silly idea, when gasoline engines work so well.

John

...

It's only tricky for those who are fifty years behind the times in electronics.

The technology to precisely position a car in a lane with an over ride option has been trivial for quite some time.

In fact, even many English majors smart enough to know about Ford hiring Microsoft to build robo cars.

You think 10 cm is precision?

It would be in the center of the lane, several feet from the wheels.

$20 billion/day in fuel is a tad expensive too.

That's why no one believes you have any "happy customers."

In the words of cowboy poet and large animal vet Baxter Black, you aren't self employed. "You are self _un_employed."

Some how that nonsense got started and every dunce on newsgroups goes around saying he "has a lot of happy customers."

Gasoline engines work very well at what has been called the "largest transfer of wealth out of a nation in the history of civilization."

Bret Cahill

Well?

Don't keep us settin' on the edges of our chairs!

Tell us them problems!

But are these problems as vast as Al Gore?

Don't you want to enlighten all of Poo Bear's friends?

Especisally if you don't know.

Bret Cahill

How many times can the battery be cycled before it degrades and needs to be replaced?

Most batteries are so expensive they will need financing and people will be paying as they use the battery.

Bret Cahill

Beret. I fear that you are mixing two very different methods of supplying traction power into one jumble.

First of all, track vehicles such as subways, mainline rail, PRT, and trackless trolleys acquire their motive power from physical conductors of electricity, and routinely achieve transmission energy transmission efficiencies of 95% or above.

A very different subject is non-contact of energy to individual vechicles on a roadway.and not on a guideway or on tracks. The US Federal Government as part of their IVHS program has been exploring this for now well over 20 years, without much evidence of success thus far. This project also addresses the driverless operation of individual vehicles.

Surprising, the wireless transfer of operating traction energy to the individual vehicles is not, as I understand it, the major obstacle, but is problematic. As I understand it, the greates coefficient of coupling thus obtained is about 15%, which is close to the figure obtain by your inductively charged electric toothbrush. Energy efficiency is not the issue here, since energy that is not coupled to a load is not lost.

What is the issue is the safety associated with automatically controlled vehicles not on a limited guideway. What is needed is a truly failsafe system, and thus far. IVHS or not, no such mechanism has yet been identified.

Another issue is how would each of the roadway powered vehicles charged for their individual energy consumption. Fortunately, that has a rather simplistic solution, much like that employed on a Pitney- Bowes postage meter. The DOT or whoever would on payment pre-load your meter box with a specific number of kilowatt hours...and when they are used up, the car of truck simply glides to a stop. Same as with gasoline fuel.

Harry C.

p.s., I really don't experct to see such systems in my lifetime, or even that of my children. Given another 75-100 years from now, I believe that such things will be commonplace.

Even many English majors smart enough to use verbs.

But OMG, carnage on the highways, especially once a year when the calendar rolls over.

Silly me, I was even considering buying a Ford. Thanks for the warning.

You think interstate highways are 10 cm thick?

No, I have a regular job and a regular salary.

A couple of managers from NIF dropped by the other day. They gave me this...

ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/NIF3.jpg

Not wealth, just dollars. And virtual dollars, at that. 1s and 0s in some files somewhere. Sounds like a good deal to me.

John

We're merely comparing the two systems. Either one would beat battery-only or fuel hybrid-only as the cost of batteries and fuel is so high.

I personally think that would be the way to go. Kids are more likely to play on subway tracks than get out into the roadbed of a freeway.

How about assisted steering for a vehicle _with_ a driver?

Just cruise along and when you don't like what the system is doing, you over ride it.

It should be _safer_ than driving by the seat of your pants.

A system with an over ride would certainly be more failsafe than human only.

In fact it would be safer _period_.

That theft problem might be more difficult to prevent than you think.

Anyone could rig up a bypass.

Why not start out giving the energy away for free to motorists and only charge big rigs?

You don't think $20 billion/day in oil cost savings could finance anything?

Bret Cahill

Can you name _one single poster_ who managed to acquire any IP of any value with that tactic?

But there is no trick or IP here.

You cannot patent the laws of physics that allow or prohibit moving induction.

Again, you need to go to small claims court and sue to get your "training" money back.

Bret Cahill

Depends on technology (chemistry - variation thereof etc) , depth of discharge, rate of discharge, rate of recharge etc etc.

As low as 300 certainly.

Graham

I would see leasing with guaranteed replacements as capacity falls, as the only practical solution.

BTW, a battery car that will do say 50 miles on a new battery may go only

That doesn't address my initial point.

Grahan