I've had this intermittent problem for over a year now where I turn the key and nothing happens. No click from the solenoid, all lights lit on the dash and total silence, no engine cranking. It would always start when I turned the key a few times and pressed the clutch a few times, so I replaced the clutch switch with no help. Problem seems to be worse in hot weather. I tried switching the starting relay with another in the same box with no help. A shop tech said the solenoid could be sticking and flying loose after a few seconds of applied voltage and I might need to replace the starter/solenoid assembly. But last week when it wouldn't start, I opened the relay box and wiggled the relays and tapped on the box and then it started. But I only did it once, so I need more data, but the problem appears to be a intermittent connection or a bad solenoid. Is it possible the solenoid is sticking and needs to be replaced, or would you suspect an intermittent connection?
What kind of connector? Those rubber-boot types are notorious for corroding. ...Jim Thompson
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| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Also, if memory serves, I think some fords and maybe others had a switch behind the seat that prevents you from starting your truck in case you get hit in the rear, and maybe hit period. I can't remember if that kills the ignition completely or just the starter ? In any case, you had to go behind the seat and reset it. Maybe you have a loose wire there and you getting in/out of the truck is causing it.
There is also another possibility, fords are noted for rust! and it causes bad engine grounds, especially where the ground strap is. depending how the body is flexing at the time as you park it, may dictate if the starter is going to turn over the next time. getting in/out can also cause this problem to fix itself.
"Jim Thompson" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...
I don't think there are any connectors. The relay box comes assembled with a wire loom that connects the box directly to various places. They quoted $600 to replace the relay box and wire loom, so I can't do that. Trobleshooting the relay box would involve leaving it connected and working on it on the hood of the truck. I may try to determine the starter relay contacts and solder a couple wires to the relay pins so I can push a button to simulate the relay closing and engage the starter. But I'm going to wait for more information. I can push start the truck with some help, so I can probably get home. The thing that amazes me is when I turn and hold the key and nothing happens, and a few seconds later the truck magically starts. It's like a built in 5 second time delay.
Welcome to the dealer-"service" club... I just knocked down $1535 for an A/C compressor :-( ...Jim Thompson
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| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
Yes, but you would expect to hear a click from the solenoid if the starter was bad. They want to sell me a starter, but I don't think that's the problem. And fuel problems are reported to the computer so the 'check engine' light comes on. I had one case where the truck cranked but wouldn't start and finally did and the 'check engine' light came on. The shop read the code as a fuel pump problem but said it didn't match the problem I described. The error light eventually went off after about 20 more starts. I don't see a 'check engine' light now, so the computer apparently doesn't know about my problems.
Id'd go for intermittent. one of the quick-connects the relay, or ignition switch plug into, or in an intermediate connector has possibly stretched and needs to be re-sized.
something needs to warm up before it allows full current to flow. or it could be goo in the starter solenoid I guess, but they're usually dry and dusty.
Do you have any kind of alarm / theft protection, either factory or aftermarket, that might be screwing up? Aftermarket alarms often route the "start" wire from the ignition switch through their own relay, so they can disable the starter. The splices for this may be bad, or maybe the alarm box isn't satisfied enough to turn on its relay.
news:rec.autos.tech may be good or bad, I don't know.
There are a couple of forum sites for Rangers,
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and
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. Maybe someone there has had this happen before. (I got good data from an Excursion forum when my boss' Excursion was screwing up.)
Check the fat cable from battery positive to the starter, and the big ground cable/strap from the engine block to battery negative. Or just disconnect the negative cable at the battery, and then go around disconnecting, wire-brushing, and reconnecting.
Crawl under the truck and make sure the starter mounting bolts are tight.
This is probably not your problem, but: if the solenoid is stuck in the extended position (gear engaged with flywheel), or if there is a "bad spot" on the starter windings, sometimes you can fix it by putting it in
3rd, *ignition key off* (so the truck doesn't take a trip without you), and then pushing the car forward or back a few feet, if able.
A circuit diagram *might* help. To get one:
If you live in or near the big city, the public library (often just the main branch) may subscribe to the "Mitchell" auto repair manuals. These are the ones that independent shops subscribe to; they are the closest you are going to get to a factory manual without paying factory-manual prices. They are much better than the typical Haynes, Chilton, etc. The catch is that they don't circulate; take some change for the copier (or a phone/camera to take pictures of the pages). They may also have some online manuals, but print a test page before you print the whole schematic; some of the earlier manuals were scanned at as much as 10 dpi and you flat can't read the diagrams. Also, take a turn through the regular stacks as well; sometimes they have real factory manuals sitting on the shelf. Again, non-circulating, but handy.
Old motorheads have told me that the classic solution to Ford starter problems was to make a heat shield out of an old license plate and install it between the starter and the block.
Yes, I have a dealer installed security system that may cause problems. I leave it turned off to avoid problems. Not sure if it uses a relay or is solid state. But that's an idea to take it back to the dealer and have them wire it back to original. I might try bypassing the starting relay contacts with a push button switch to prove the relay is not getting voltage to the coil. If it starts, it would eliminate bad battery and starter cable connections, and also the solenoid.
Pretty close. Turns out there is a security device in series with the starter circuit that requires a key. I haven't used it in years and leave it turned off. Anyway, the problem got worse in the recent heat wave and the truck finally wouldn't crank at home and stayed dead long enough to eliminate the solenoid and relay. Applying 12 volts to the appropriate relay pin started the truck. So, the problem was no power to the relay coil. That meant the key switch was bad or the security circuit was open. Bypassing the security circuit fixed the problem I hope. Time will tell, but I didn't fix it. I had a shop tech come over and do all the measurements. He was pretty good and knew the function of every relay pin. .
Somebody in Germany (Bosch maybe) came up with a fairly standard set of numerical designations for most of the circuits in a car. It later became DIN 72 552 and is probably an EN now. A lot of automotive relays are marked according to this scheme - the terminals are often labeled
85, 86, 30, 87, and 87a. 85 is coil -, 86 is coil +, 30 is the common contact, 87 is the normally open contact (closed with coil energized), and 87a is the normally closed contact (open with coil energized). For a lot of older relays, the coil would work on either polarity. Once computers in cars happened, lots of relays grew diodes across the coil, so you have to pay attention to which end of the coil is positive. (With no diode, it's easy to get spikes of 90 V DC or more from the coil when a standard automotive relay switches off.)
Some other useful numbers are 30 (battery, hot all the time), 15 (hot with key on), and 31 (ground all the time).
No, that system is actually not in the seat usually, but maybe on some models. But it only kills the 12V fed to the fuel pump. People have had to jump them out. It is not difficult and really I would try it. But we don't even know the problem.
When something does not rin you check three things. Fuel, spark and compression. If it runs again it is not compression.
And f*ck that collision detector, you get in a fender bender and you can't drive it home ? Bullshit. Fuck all that. You just give each other names and decide whether to call the cops or not. Bt needing a tow is f***ed up. Fuck all that.
Super! Surfing on "DIN 72 552" brought me all the information I needed to add direct wiring to my Bluetooth speaker phone and my Garmin NUVI GPS in my 10-year-old Q45. ...Jim Thompson
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| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| San Tan Valley, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
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