Somebody here recommended Beldsol thermal-strip magnet wire for breadboarding.
I got a 1/2 pound spool of Belden 8055, $25 on ebay, which is 30 AWG. That looks pretty good for general prototyping. If I cut it to length, I can tin and solder the tip end easily, using my Metcal iron, which is temperature regulated to about 330C.
A little thicker, like #28, might be good too.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
On a sunny day (Tue, 23 Sep 2014 12:02:12 -0700) it happened John Larkin wrote in :
I have used magnet wire at times. the burned isolation vapors are poisonous. Horrible to work with. Using stripped flat cable, works great.
Den tirsdag den 23. september 2014 21.02.12 UTC+2 skrev John Larkin:
the big advantage is that you don't have to pull on a wire, that are already attached to, strip it. You can just solder it to point A, "route" it to point B, cut-tin-solder and you are done.
I use .25mm (~30 awg) with that 1mm pitch ICs and connectors are doable
for the beefier stuff I use 0.5mm (24awg)
-Lasse
I use #24 Teflon coated. Cut to length, "pinch" end with needle nose pliers to "strip"... doesn't melt when soldering. ...Jim Thompson
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I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
It's easier than that; you wrap around post A, solder it (so it doesn't pull free) straight through the insulation, then route to point B, wrap, to point C, wrap, to point A2, wrap, to point B2, wrap. Then solder B, C, A2, B2. Then snip out the wire between C and A2. Point-to-point connection speed is pretty darned good, if you can remember which parts need to be snipped.
for wire wrap pins yes, not so much dead-bugging so8 or similar
-Lasse
Wrap? Post? Time warp!
I really don't miss hand-taped PCBs, or wire-wrap, or analog oscilloscopes, or voltmeters with needles.
The Beldsol wets better if there's some copper exposed, like on a snipped end. It will daisy-chain solder nicely if you scrape off just a bit of the insulation at the midway points, with an x-acto, to get the soldering started.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
I use 30ga Teflon wire (30ga is even too big with 0402 SMT parts) but unfortunately it doesn't "pinch" strip, like the stuff we used 20-30 years ago. I use it because it doesn't melt.
Wire-wrap pins are too long (hard to get the iron to the target area); but, through-hole R, C, and DIP components (or DIP sockets) work OK, and if you mount short wires to a SO8 puppet board, that's workable too.
Compatible, too, with those little turret-rivet things, that put a real solid mechanical-connected post onto the PC board. Other test-point options seem so ... wimpy.
You might consider a small solder pot: It's approximately what I used to use for breadboards back in the dark ages. I don't recall the wire gauge but #28 AWG sounds about right.
Somewhat later, I inhertited a large box of pre-cut insulated wire wrap wires, which worked much better. Cut to length and strip with a thermal wire stripper: I still have most of the box, and use the wires for most everything. Also, get some pieces of 0.141 RG402 semi-rigid coax cables for 50 ohm signal paths.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
So you tin one end in the solder pot. How do you know where to cut the other end so you can tin it also? Do you have to measure the length of the run first and cut the wire to length before tinning both ends? That might be awkward for some runs where I like to go between the component leads to shorten the run, or use some wierd routing to minimize crosstalk.
I usually just get a blob of solder and flux on the tip of the iron and stick the wire in it. Sort of a mini solder pot. Then solder the wire to the start pin and cut it at the target joint. Repeat as needed.
I find it helps to use a hot tip for my old Weller. It is marked with the number 8 which I believe is 800F. 330C is 626F, so it is quite a bit hotter than Larkin's Metcal, plus it is probably not as well regulated.
On a sunny day (Tue, 23 Sep 2014 16:54:57 -0700) it happened John Larkin wrote in :
The disadvantage of voltmeters with needles is that you have to reverse leads if you get the polarity wrong. For the rest mine survided where 2 types with LCD digits did not. Analog scopes are miracles. Them digitals lie.
Not entirely; I did my last wirewrap project about a month ago, because it was the quickest and simplest way for me to get the result I needed.
The previous one was >30 years ago :)
Hand-taped PCBs always were an abomination! (What me exaggerate for effect?)
Wirewrap for prototypes was replaced by rather good low-profile multilayer PCBs fully populated with IDC socket pins. Expensive, but effective.
The processing/display routines in digital scopes can be misleading sometimes.
It is *far easier* to teach newbies how to use an analogue scope because all controls are visible all the time, not hidden behind menus/buttons/screens.
Voltmeters with needles still have their place: * in a control panel it is *much* easier to quickly scan an array of needles to see if something is abnormal, i.e. "out of place" * it is much quicker to get an approximate reading with an analogue multimeter: simply briefly touch the UUT and see the *acceleration/speed* of the needle (much like a ballistic galvanometer!). No multiranging, no settling time.
On 24/09/2014 12:01, Jeff Liebermann wrote: [snip]
You can get semi-rigid coax in sizes rather smaller than 1mm (0.040"). That is great for hand-wired microwave prototypes. Sometimes I need to get RF out of a dead-bugged MLF/LFCSP, and it's pretty straightforward to solder the outer conductor of the micro-coax to the ground paddle of the LFCSP and solder the inner conductor to one of the RF pins. I expect that probably gives better RF performance than a multilayer PCB made of fancy dielectric.
I wonder how they make semi-rigid coax.
Chris
I have my eBay search set to find USA vendors only. I wouldn't mind buying from China but can't tolerate the long delivery delays. The packages are usually consolidated and shipped in a container. The container is only shipped when it's full. If I order just before the container sails, I might get 1 week delivery. If business is slow, and I have to wait for it to fill up, it can take much longer. I've had 2-3 month deliveries in the past. Fortunately, small items can be sent via Hong Kong Air Post, which is much quicker, unless there's a foul up in customs.
Yes. Cut first, tin the ends, solder in place.
For wire wrap wire, it's cut first, strip both ends, solder in place.
If I want to do a daisy chain, such as soldering a long wire onto a string of pads, I use bare solid wire, and insulating clear sleeves (not shrink tubing). I could probably have done it with magnet wire but prefer the removable sleeving so I can easily add ferrite beads or small value current sense resistors to the power supply lines.
Crosstalk on a PCB would be worse than on a 3D hand wired breadboard. If short leads are a problem, I would probably have built a PCB prototype in the manner previously described (Single sided G10/FR4. Ground plane and connections on top and drilled holes for leaded parts. Scramble wired circuit side using component leads and sleeving). These days, I would just layout and order a prototype PCB.
Yeah, that works but gets a bit tedious. The solder pot is a little easier and changes the procedure to scraping off the dross, dip the leads quickly, solder. I don't like to cut the wire when attached to a breadboard. Then my breadboards are about 1 inch thick with wires and components, it's not easy to reach in there with the diagonal cutters, even if a thin soldering iron fits.
The obvious problems with a mini solder pot are the time it takes to get warm and melt the solder, dealing with the dross, and setting fire to documents and test leads that come in contact with the solder pot. It also consumes a fair amount of solder if used regularly. It's not a perfect tool for breadboarding, but I like it and willingly pay the price.
I use the same tips. However, I do all my prototyping and repair work with ecologically incorrect lead-tin solder, which requires only a "7" tip. This tip is not very good at removing the insulation from magnet wire. As you note, a hotter tip would be required. I do have one, and use it when needed, mostly for un-leaded solder work, and soldering large objects, like copper shields and coaxial connectors.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
I have buckets of various chunks of hardline and semi-hard, with sundry connectors. I refill occasionally from ebay. It looks like there are massive amounts of custom hardline made for various projects, surplused when things go wrong.
It's usually regular braided coax, with the braid tinned. There is also, less common, hardline made from dead-soft aluminum.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
The smallest I could find is 0.020" OD. I've never tried working with anything that small. I'm getting too old to handle really small coax cables. I use 0.141 mostly because I can still see and handle it (and because I have a tolerable supply).
The nice part about using semi-rigid is that the outer conductor can be soldered directly to the PCB ground plane or tack soldered onto a component lead. That's much easier than dealing with a braided tangle on the more common flexible coax cables. For microwave prototype boards, semi-rigid is required. For non-microwave RF boards, it's nice. For lower frequencies, the shielding, convenience and stiffness are useful.
I don't know. I did some Googling but couldn't find anything on how it's made.
-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Full hardline can make a nice launch into microstrip.
-- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
The inner wire and insulator is threaded into an annealed Cu pipe (like,
3mm diameter, where the final result is to be 2mm coax). Then, the end is clamped and the pipe is pulled through a die that swages it down (and thins and lengthens it).The same sort of thing is done with nichromei wire and ceramic-beads insulation, in an oversize Kanthal pipe, then swaged down, cold-rolled to shape, then bent into the familiar (Calrod) electric-stove elements we cook on.
Thus, lookie here!
I used to love the fast overnight mail when I lived in the states. Up here in Canada, we have a different clock. You can expect a week or two for a letter, maybe 4 to 6 weeks in customs, plus regular shipping. I am waiting for a small parcel from Oregon that is now 6 weeks since it was shipped.
Reaching in with diagonal cutters should not be a problem. I snake the wire where I want it to go, then solder the free end. I hold the other end to the remaining connection with a pair of long nose pliers, then pull it away from the circuit and cut and tin the free end. Then solder it to the desired location.
The eBay units mentioned previously have a case that might give some protection. Test leads and other meltables would suffer the same fate with a hot iron.
I guess it would use less solder than my method of tinning the end with a blob of solder on the tip of the iron. I have to throw the excess away when it is time to solder the connection. Even so, a roll of solder lasts a long time, so it's not a major expense.
I have a bunch of soldering irons collected over the years. Some smaller than the Weller, others go up to a 150 Watt monster for soldering 1/2" copper pipe.
Do you remember the days when hookup for old tube radios used to be 12 ga bare copper? You really needed a heavy iron to work on them.
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