Hi guys, After the hurricane we have had many home repairs completed. It's about time when they will want their money. We have some problems that need to be addressed, and there is disagreement about whether it will be done. If these items do not get done I either need to do them myself or hire someone to do it. Not wanting to pay twice, the first contractor may not get all his money. So when I do pay him, "What form do I need him to sign in order to prevent in liens that may be attached from having any legal standing?"
I thought it was called an estoppel, but an internet search does not provide a form that fits, home repair contractors. Thanks, Mikek
Laws vary from state to state and country to country. I suggest you consider contacting a local lawyer or your nearest Better Business Bureau for advice...
If you sign a contract in most of the US and don't cancel it within 72 hour s it is binding. However many contracts involve pay upon completion.
If they deliver materials to your place, they are yours as long as you paid materials up front, which is how many such contracts are. You also have th e right to return them or sell them if not used.
The contractor, after 72 hours has the right to charge like a "pullout fee" . They can claim they got you on the schedule and others got put off longer because of your job. Courts will generally give them the prayer amount if it seems reasonable. Like if you wanted a Trump tower built and sign for it , you ain't getting out of it for a grand. However if you are talking about repairing a house the dollar amount is not all that great and they did not dedicate the national debt to your job. Therefore their real damages are o nly so much. They DO have to prove, even in a roundabout way, real damages. If you gave them a deposit it is gone if you back out. That is what a depo sit is for.
You should have a copy of what you signed, read it carefully. then you can research law in your state and see just how it is. You might have to call t hem and ask how much would be OK to pull out. Also to even sue them you nee d damages and have none. They sue you. Is it worth it to them ? If they're incorporated you can get their specs, like income and profit, and you might be able to get a Dun & Bradstreet on them. Also look for any previous laws uits against them. This is all ammo for court if it comes to that.
And I'll tell you this, if they did nothing wrong to you, and they let you out of the contract relatively cheap you owe them a thank you. They got pow er, they can lien up your house (as you stated so you know) and if they sue for a million and you default you could lose big. Don't default. You can g et continuances if you can't make it.
Another thing is when you go to court and have nothing against them it is s till your house. Just say it, after talking to someone else I want someone else to do the work. They will respect that but not necessarily for free. D on't expect to get out of this for nothing.
But then, be reasonable. they are in business just like the rest of us and if they tell a future customer a date that is pushed back by your intended job and that customer refuses the deal because it will take too long they g ot you by the gonads. When that happens, make a deal.
I also suggest you do not file a countersuit right away until you have had a good powow with them. In fact have that before even thinking of court. An d do not sue them unless they get out of line.
Notify them by registered mail that you do no longer want them to do the wo rk and ask they contact you first. that is one way you can get out of it fo r free. They DO value customer relations.
On 2/12/2019 5:49 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
A little additional info, Hurricane tipped in side wall of garage, plywood blown off the roof, water inflow caused ceiling of garage to end up on floor with all the insulation.
And a rant, with info about why I'm not happy and expect I may need to withhold money.
Contract says, "Remove existing damaged end wall of house, Build new stud wall on 16" centers, reinstall trusses as necessary,build gable and Soffit, provide Simson Strapping as per building code, install OSB on exterior of wall and cover with synthetic wrap. Move garage door back into place and secure it so that it function right. NOTE: Price does not include brick or labor for brick placement. Doors & Trim Install New Garage Door and Opener Interior Painting: Repair the Drywall in the ceiling of the living room and paint Repair Front Porch including 4 new 6x6 Post with Bucket fastness and Post Wraps Drywall Replace drywall in the ceiling and walls that were damaged in the Hurricane. Soffit Remove and replace fascia and Vinyl Soffit around home 300 AL Ft. of fascia and 450Sq Ft of Soffit.
First problem, they didn't remove damaged end wall of house. They just raised it, and replaced all or part of top plate and/or cap plate. The old wall has 24" centers. Contract says,"Build new stud wall on 16" centers". So far no deduction for the materials they would have used to build a new wall. After they moved the garage wall, it wasn't where it should be, didn't line up with old paint line. After the contractor left, I removed a 2x6 to see the gap between the inside stud and the brick, broken concrete got between and wouldn't allow proper placement. I got a thin tool and removed several pieces of concrete and put the wall in it's proper position. So all the outlets were rained on during the hurricane, they didn't install new ones, they removed two ceiling lights in the garage, they didn't reinstall new lights. They even shot a nail and managed to put a hole in two pipes, water was flowing out of the outlet box. They didn't replace the outlet, about two weeks later my washer didn't work, I thought it was the breaker, nope the outlet had poor connection, I replaced it. They didn't attach the dryer outlet to the wall it's just hanging. The Fascia they installed is Tan, the existing Fascia is Almond, it doesn't match. The wrap on the 6x6 posts has gaps and they didn't caulk anything! They say there bid didn't include a new back door to the garage, but it was clearly water damaged (wood pealing off) on the inside where it got wet, outside was fine. It's a detail, I just assumed the contractor was going to repair the damage caused by the hurricane,nope he didn't include the damaged door. The insulation they installed in the attic was laid over boards and wires rather than being put between joists. They have now made two attempts to get it right, but still have not completed the job. Oh, I never signed any contract. But I did give him half the money after he raised the wall and I got my two vehicles out. Contractor came to the house today to collect the final payment, I wasn't home, but my wife didn't pay him and started pointing out problems. He left unpaid. So when I do pay him, I want all possibility of liens to be minimized. Thus my question about the Estoppel. I'm not backing out of the contract, we are at the point of trying to agree on what the contract says. This whole thing has just been problem after problem, lie after lie. But we are near the end. Well except for the Carport and the screened porch, but that will be somebody else. Mikek
hours it is binding. However many contracts involve pay upon completion.
paid materials up front, which is how many such contracts are. You also hav e the right to return them or sell them if not used.
fee". They can claim they got you on the schedule and others got put off lo nger because of your job. Courts will generally give them the prayer amount if it seems reasonable. Like if you wanted a Trump tower built and sign fo r it, you ain't getting out of it for a grand. However if you are talking a bout repairing a house the dollar amount is not all that great and they did not dedicate the national debt to your job. Therefore their real damages a re only so much. They DO have to prove, even in a roundabout way, real dama ges. If you gave them a deposit it is gone if you back out. That is what a deposit is for.
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Here is a more clear definition of estopple I found.
What exactly is a tenant estoppel? By definition, an estoppel certificate i s a ?signed statement by a party certifying for another's benefit t hat certain facts are correct, as that a lease exists, that there are no de faults, and that rent is paid to a certain date.
So it seems to simply be a statement that certain facts are correct. I'm n ot sure this is really what you need, but the term could be applied I suppo se.
What you need is to give him the money you agree on (assuming you can agree with him) and both of you sign a paper that says you both agree the work i s satisfactory and the payment you are making is sufficient to cover his fe es and all money owed for materials. You might include a warranty period t o protect you from poor workmanship.
There are some details you need to be sure of about the materials I can't r ecall exactly. You need to prevent him from placing a mechanic's lien on t he materials to get more money from you which the above signed paper should cover.
You also need to protect yourself from the people he bought the materials f rom to make sure they can't put a lien on the materials to get money from h im. I'm not sure just how you do this second part. I know those folks hav e certain legal rights to the materials until he has paid them. I recall a case where a home remodeler never paid for the kitchen cabinets installed on a job he was paid to do. The people who made the cabinets came to the h ouse and removed them... legally.
Yes that lease estoppel are what I kept running into. I did find one Release of Labor Lien here,
Also found this Release of Material Provider?s Lien,
I don't have a good feeling about either though, as far as I know, no liens have been filed yet, so the form cannot be filled out with "which was recorded at ________________ Book, Book ___, page ____ of the _________ County," I think I need to spend for some lawyer time. Mikek
2 hours it is binding. However many contracts involve pay upon completion.
u paid materials up front, which is how many such contracts are. You also h ave the right to return them or sell them if not used.
t fee". They can claim they got you on the schedule and others got put off longer because of your job. Courts will generally give them the prayer amou nt if it seems reasonable. Like if you wanted a Trump tower built and sign for it, you ain't getting out of it for a grand. However if you are talking about repairing a house the dollar amount is not all that great and they d id not dedicate the national debt to your job. Therefore their real damages are only so much. They DO have to prove, even in a roundabout way, real da mages. If you gave them a deposit it is gone if you back out. That is what a deposit is for.
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te is a ?signed statement by a party certifying for another's benef it that certain facts are correct, as that a lease exists, that there are n o defaults, and that rent is paid to a certain date.
'm not sure this is really what you need, but the term could be applied I s uppose.
gree with him) and both of you sign a paper that says you both agree the wo rk is satisfactory and the payment you are making is sufficient to cover hi s fees and all money owed for materials. You might include a warranty peri od to protect you from poor workmanship.
't recall exactly. You need to prevent him from placing a mechanic's lien on the materials to get more money from you which the above signed paper sh ould cover.
ls from to make sure they can't put a lien on the materials to get money fr om him. I'm not sure just how you do this second part. I know those folks have certain legal rights to the materials until he has paid them. I reca ll a case where a home remodeler never paid for the kitchen cabinets instal led on a job he was paid to do. The people who made the cabinets came to t he house and removed them... legally.
The material lien document would be signed by the seller of the materials. Unless you know who that is the only thing you can get is for your documen t to say that the materials have been paid for and the contractor indemnifi es you against any action to collect on monies owed.
I don't know that you need a lawyer at this point. First talk to the guy. Find out what he is willing to do. How much money is the contract worth? Lawyers don't work for small sums mostly. If there isn't a large fee invo lved, you won't get much interest from them.
The part that puzzles me is that you keep talking about a "contract" but th en you say you never signed a contract. "I never signed any contract." At this point you have a verbal contract and it is not likely to be enforceab le.
Sounds like a real mess.
Do you have any idea how many dollars are tied up in materials? If it's no t a lot, maybe you should just wait and see if anyone comes after the goods . Were the materials delivered by someone in particular? Since the materi als are very generic and aren't something that can be clearly shown to be f rom a given supplier, it might be hard for them to attach a lien to "40 2x4 studs and 24 outlets".
LOL- whatever. What I like the most about this story is he's rebuilding to the same inadequate standard as the original, like this magnitude of hurric ane will never occur again. Stuff like OSB sheathing, of unspecified thickn ess and nailing schedule, which doesn't help the buffeted wall at all, only prevents the perpendicular walls from racking. The "contractor" probably s howed up wearing a MAGA hat, and that made the sale.
I did have an error in my post, While installing shelving brackets I found the wall does have 16" centers not 24".
Other than that you are wrong.
They installed Stud Plate Ties to the top and bottom of the wall similar to these.
They also installed Simpson anchors at the bottom to anchor the wall to the concrete.
They added a long metal strap on each side of a window. They installed 2x4s in the attic tying the wall cap to the joists. The wall has 1/2" OSB outside and 7/16" plywood on the inside, it will also have a brick veneer. All were nailed with a nail that meets code. I don't know if the nails have a glue or what, but they are very difficult to remove. I removed some squirrelly nails that they bent but didn't care to remove and reinstall, (no QC, again) I did remove and reinstall about 10 nails.
So again you are wrong it is not "the same inadequate standard as the original" btw the original lasted 45 years without damage.
On Monday the office manager of the subcontractor came by to check on things. She got an ear full, and was shown many things we were complaining about. Wednesday two guys showed up to finish the job, they had a whole new attitude, they were there to make us happy. They started pointing out the things they were going fix, like their eyes had just been opened. They did some finish work around our columns, that they thought they were done with, looks much better. They are going to reinstall the back door, the install was poor and the screen door will not fit in the not square opening. They will replace all the wrong color soffit. Half the house is one color and their install is another color. One guy started caulking a joint and the caulk was to light in color, he came and ask our opinion, he stopped and will find the right color caulk. The Office manager came by again on Friday, first thing I ask her was "did you crack the whip?" She said she did have a talk with them. We let her know, about the new attitude. Also the guy I had the most problems with did not return to the job.
Things are looking better, but until it's finished we won't know how it will end.
Here are some photos, several of these are within a mile of my home.
Still need to know how to stop any liens after payment.
Before you say it, ya, hurricanes will be much more severe because of man made global warming.
Since you learned your lesson, I'll give you a tip. You need the contractor to sign a simple lien waiver upon receipt of payment. This is standard practice in the construction industry everywhere.
I thank you for the link, but really the line was meant as sarcasm, I was just beating you to your punchline!
Funny thing, I had old documents stored in the attic over the garage. I removed everything up there so the contractors could install insulation. I had records back to 1968 (earned $301), just years and years of bill payments, business records, IRS 1040s and receipts. Had some stuff my mother kept from kindergarten 58 years ago. While burning most of the old records I found a packet of "Full Unconditional Waiver of Liens" from 1992 when I had a house built.
Mikek
PS. I thought you would correct me and call it Climate Change!
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