Ventilator (2023 Update)

The number of critical cases not surviving the COVID-19 virus is linked to the limited availability of ventilators. So I'm looking at my extensive collection of project materials and thinking "how hard can it be to make a ventilator? How many could I make in the next two weeks?"

Can anyone summarise the key components and functions of these things?

I'm assuming some kind of motor-driven bellows, and a face mask, but... what else?

Clifford Heath.

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Clifford Heath
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Clifford Heath wrote in news:eizbG.452990$ snipped-for-privacy@fx40.iad:

It is about oxygen infusion such that the patient survives the inflammation that the immune response causes. Most of the deaths are from pneumonia.

I think an oxygenated perfluorocarbon 'rinse' would do some good too. Or maybe it would make one even more vulnerable.

So, a oxygenated fluorocarbon rinse WITH a two week stay in an oxygen tent.

No wait.

Do you means forced respiration like in the old Iron Lung thing?

In that case, the best, cheapest solution is some kind of home applied intubation with a pure Oxygen stream. That way, the patient gets oxygen, yet does not need to respirate as much back into the room.

What we need are coughing protocols.

Folks need to be less externally 'wet'. breath is typically very high humidity. So more than coughing, simple respiration can be a transmission vector.

So, the social separation thing is good advice.

It is not really about touching one's face if one is are cognisant about what one does with one's hands. I DO touch my face quite often, but I also know where my hands have been. I even scrub the back of my hand, which most folks 'graze' over. I also do dishes, by hand, in very hot water, for many many minutes. My hands are almost as clean as a surgeon's.

Watch how fast (and hard) you talk when facing someone as well. Talk through your hand at in inch or two, or be very conscious that your speech is low velocity.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

None that you can legally use on a human being. There are rigorous safety hurdles you must pass for equipment like this. In particular it is not so easy to inflate lungs without doing damage. Consider that air is normally drawn into the lungs by the partial vacuum created, not by an elevated pres sure created on the outside. Too much pressure into the lungs and damage i s done to the alveoli, air gets into the bloodstream and the person dies of an embolism.

I think we need to take your slide rule away and teach you to wash your han ds well and often.

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Rick C

y hurdles you must pass for equipment like this. In particular it is not s o easy to inflate lungs without doing damage. Consider that air is normall y drawn into the lungs by the partial vacuum created, not by an elevated pr essure created on the outside. Too much pressure into the lungs and damage is done to the alveoli, air gets into the bloodstream and the person dies of an embolism.

ands well and often.

F**k you and your slide-rule insults. If you have nothing to offer, then s ay nothing!

I daresay plenty of rules will be broken when enough people start dying. Wh ether you admit it or not, that's imminent. How many deaths will it take? E xperts are predicting a million deaths in the USA alone. Seattle is already deciding who gets the machines, and who dies - and it's only just beginnin g.

If my family start dying, you think I'm gonna worry about getting chastise d?

Reply to
clifford.heath

ed

it

"

ety hurdles you must pass for equipment like this. In particular it is not so easy to inflate lungs without doing damage. Consider that air is norma lly drawn into the lungs by the partial vacuum created, not by an elevated pressure created on the outside. Too much pressure into the lungs and dama ge is done to the alveoli, air gets into the bloodstream and the person die s of an embolism.

?

..

hands well and often.

say nothing!

Whether you admit it or not, that's imminent. How many deaths will it take? Experts are predicting a million deaths in the USA alone. Seattle is alrea dy deciding who gets the machines, and who dies - and it's only just beginn ing.

sed?

OMG! I was making a joke. No one is going to have home made ventilators. By the time they are sick enough to have need for one they will already be in either the hospital or the Torchwood death ovens. No need to torture a nyone with a vacuum cleaner ventilator. Just let them die naturally or giv e them an overdose of a barbiturate.

I haven't seen the death forecasts. Considering that in China they have sl owed the infection rate to a few handfuls a day after some 80,000 have been infected. Why would you think we are going to see millions die? Do you t hink the rest of the world is incapable of imposing military law and lockin g down cities enough to stop this thing? I'm reading they are already talk ing about limiting interstate travel in the US.

While some of our leaders want to demonize China over this issue, they are the shining light on how to handle this pandemic. I guess some people aren 't willing to do what it takes. They'd rather dream impossible dreams.

Stay at home and don't get infected. That is literally the best advice.

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Rick C

ed

it

"

ety hurdles you must pass for equipment like this. In particular it is not so easy to inflate lungs without doing damage. Consider that air is norma lly drawn into the lungs by the partial vacuum created, not by an elevated pressure created on the outside. Too much pressure into the lungs and dama ge is done to the alveoli, air gets into the bloodstream and the person die s of an embolism.

?

..

hands well and often.

say nothing!

Whether you admit it or not, that's imminent. How many deaths will it take? Experts are predicting a million deaths in the USA alone. Seattle is alrea dy deciding who gets the machines, and who dies - and it's only just beginn ing.

sed?

_You may not be old enough to remember " iron lungs ' , but they did not use a bellows and face mask. Try googling " iron lung " . It might give y ou an idea of what is needed.

Dan

Reply to
dcaster

It wasn't funny. You should have known that.

By welding sick people inside apartment buildings with healthy ones? I can't see that working here. Not least because most houses have timber frames.

Because that's what the top epidemiologists are saying - about a million, not millions.

That will be too little, too late, like everything else about the US response.

Right. That's my plan. Unfortunately our broadband is broken (I'm tethering) and my SO cannot WFH. She is putting herself and me at risk instead.

Reply to
clifford.heath

nked

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s?"

afety hurdles you must pass for equipment like this. In particular it is n ot so easy to inflate lungs without doing damage. Consider that air is nor mally drawn into the lungs by the partial vacuum created, not by an elevate d pressure created on the outside. Too much pressure into the lungs and da mage is done to the alveoli, air gets into the bloodstream and the person d ies of an embolism.

gs?

t...

ur hands well and often.

en say nothing!

. Whether you admit it or not, that's imminent. How many deaths will it tak e? Experts are predicting a million deaths in the USA alone. Seattle is alr eady deciding who gets the machines, and who dies - and it's only just begi nning.

tised?

ot use a bellows and face mask. Try googling " iron lung " . It might give you an idea of what is needed.

I am not speaking from specific knowledge of ventilators, but I do know an iron lung is a different device. That was used to inflate a patient's lung s because their muscles were immobilized from a polio infection. Their hea d was outside of the iron lung and the pressure inside would vary to draw a partial vacuum which would result in the chest rising and filling with air through the normal passageways which were connected to the normal air pres sure outside.

I believe a ventilator is different in that the patient's airways are at le ast partially blocked. The patient can move their diaphragm and chest to i nflate their lungs. But the fluid inside the lung prevents much air from r eaching the alveoli where the oxygen can transport to the blood. So a posi tive pressure is used to inflate more of the lung. I have no idea how they prevent damage while doing this. I'm sure it also helps to provide pure O

2 while doing this.

I really don't think this is at all a practical home brew project. But I'm happy for someone to show me I'm wrong.

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Rick C

Aaaand, here you have it. Open Source Ventilators...

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Reply to
clifford.heath

e:

astised?

It is funny to anyone who realizes the futility of trying to make your own ventilator.

e slowed the infection rate to a few handfuls a day after some 80,000 have been infected.

are the shining light on how to handle this pandemic.

n't see that working here. Not least because most houses have timber frames .

What the F does timber have to do with it??? Where else are you going to p ut the many, many infected people in your scenario other than at home? The Chinese built "hospitals" nearly overnight, but then had no one to provide medical care in them... NONE! They wouldn't move people to proper hospita ls because there was NO ROOM!

That was from a region of some millions of people being in quarantine. The y stopped it from raging through their entire country. If we can't do the same thing we don't deserve to live.

Interesting how Trump got tested as soon as he *might* have been exposed. We don't seem to have that luxury for the rest of us.

not millions.

A million here, millions elsewhere. So why do the "top epidemiologists" (r eminds me of the closing scene in "Raiders of the Lost Ark") think the new infection rate is so low now in China and yet in the US we are doomed???

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onse.

.

ng) and my SO cannot WFH. She is putting herself and me at risk instead.

So quit the job.... unless she works in the medical profession which is not unlike being a soldier. They all take the job knowing the risks. No, it can't be that or she would have gotten you the secret hospital plans for Ru be Goldberg ventilators.

If I were still working, I would quit rather than go to work at this point. Once it is all over they will be needing to replace the engineers who did n't stay at home. Sad, but true.

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Rick C

I thought it was. Please calm down.

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Bob Engelhardt

Ok, I signed up!

Wow! I thought this was a complicated job for a home brew. After seeing what this project is currently thinking, it is a huge project with many different approaches. I'm not even sure what their goals are.

We have some time to ramp up to deal with this disease. Why can't we just get the manufacturers to make more now? That seems so obvious. The feds are ready to write checks all over the place. This seems like an obvious way to spend money usefully.

Who's in charge of the effort to fight the virus? Oh yeah, that would be Pence, right? Oh, but he's still trying to get testing ramped up. Ok, who's next in command?

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  Rick C. 

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Rick C

e:

:

linked

can it

eks?"

safety hurdles you must pass for equipment like this. In particular it is not so easy to inflate lungs without doing damage. Consider that air is n ormally drawn into the lungs by the partial vacuum created, not by an eleva ted pressure created on the outside. Too much pressure into the lungs and damage is done to the alveoli, air gets into the bloodstream and the person dies of an embolism.

ings?

but...

your hands well and often.

then say nothing!

ng. Whether you admit it or not, that's imminent. How many deaths will it t ake? Experts are predicting a million deaths in the USA alone. Seattle is a lready deciding who gets the machines, and who dies - and it's only just be ginning.

astised?

not use a bellows and face mask. Try googling " iron lung " . It might gi ve you an idea of what is needed.

n iron lung is a different device. That was used to inflate a patient's lu ngs because their muscles were immobilized from a polio infection. Their h ead was outside of the iron lung and the pressure inside would vary to draw a partial vacuum which would result in the chest rising and filling with a ir through the normal passageways which were connected to the normal air pr essure outside.

least partially blocked. The patient can move their diaphragm and chest to inflate their lungs. But the fluid inside the lung prevents much air from reaching the alveoli where the oxygen can transport to the blood. So a po sitive pressure is used to inflate more of the lung. I have no idea how th ey prevent damage while doing this. I'm sure it also helps to provide pure O2 while doing this.

'm happy for someone to show me I'm wrong.

There are still people that rely on iron lungs to survive, and can't use mo dern ventilators. No-one has made the machines for half a century or more, so they're all old & patched up, typically operating in private homes with no routine maintenance and no parts availability.

On the question of home made ventilators, the mechanism is pretty simple an d I'm sure could be copied at home. Naturally there are risks in doing so, including legal ones, but in the unlikely event that your family member is unable to get access to a good one and unable to survive without one, if se nsible you'll cobble one together and probably live. From what I've seen of American attitudes to medicine it will be the country least capable & will ing to do so. Most able will probably be Russia.

NT

Reply to
tabbypurr

Please do say more. It seems that you may have some of the information that I came here for.

Clifford Heath

Reply to
Clifford Heath

e and I'm sure could be copied at home

You've already been given a link to a project that is doing exactly what yo u want. Check it out. It will provide a lot of information that you won't get in this group. They currently have some 2000 people who are helping. Some of the approaches are so simple you can build it at home. I just don 't know any of the details required to actually make it useful to a patient . But there is some 30 pages of useful info already.

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Rick C

Thanks, but I asked tabby. There's good info even on

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CH.

Reply to
Clifford Heath

Rick C wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

I'd hand a sign on you "Do not resuscitate".

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

Rick C wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

Fuck you. There is an Oxygen generating machine in the next room that fills Oxygen tanks too. My friend uses it 24/7. It would not be that big a leap.

Well... maybe for you.

OMG! I made a joke... About you! No... About your grasp of reality... or lack thereof.

Oh, damn... another joke... or was it?

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

Rick C wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@googlegroups.com:

You are an idiot.

Bet you can't shoot pool either.

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

Bob Engelhardt wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news1.newsguy.com:

NO! SWEAT IT OUT WITH ANGER!!!

AND BELCHES!

AND FARTS!

DON'T FORGET TO PROJECTILE VOMIT!

BUT WHATEVER YOU DO... DO NOT TOUCH YOUR FACE OR COUGH OR SNEEZE!

BWUAHAHAHAHA!

Reply to
DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno

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