USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?

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The designers of a particular pinball game decided to go with USB A to  
Mini-B cabling to connect the computer (off the shelf Chinese  
motherboard) to the four IO boards.

We'd been having trouble with noise rejection - the game would randomly  
lock up or sections would freeze - and ended up with some USB cables  
from Digikey made by Molex, LLC, numbers 0887328802, 0887328502, and  
0887328702.

Example doc on the cable:

http://www.molex.com/webdocs/datasheets/pdf/en-us/0887328702_CABLE_ASSEMBLIES.pdf

While these sheilded cables worked well in our shop environment the game  
was unreliable once it got to its new home - so I was curious what other  
considerations do USB controlled logic require besides shielded cables?

Oh, and the manufacturer of the game has gone out of business, so no  
recourse there.

Suggestions? I'd love to rip out the USB and replace with twisted pair,  
but that is a bigger job than the customer wants.

Schematics of the game are not currently available...

Suggestions?

Thanks!

John :-#)#
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                      John's Jukes Ltd.
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Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
wrote:

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No clue on the cable quality, but I have had some problems with ground
loops, where the computah and device grounds came from different AC
power grounds.  There are plenty of USB ground loop isolators
available.  Maybe try one:
<https://www.blackbox.com/en-us/Store/Detail.aspx/1-Port-USB-to-USB-Isolator-2-kV/SP386A
<https://www.sealevel.com/product-category/type/usb-isolators/
<https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1349994-REG/ifi_audio_0306016_idefender_3_0_usb_noise.html
Try a ferrite bead around the cable and check the 5V line for noise.
If the client is using a USB hub, try it without the hub, with an
external 5V supply, or with a different USB hub.  Also, measure the DC
resistance of the wires in the USB cable.  I've seen a few cables with
lots of insulation and decorative wrapping, but high resistance tinsel
instead of copper wire.


--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
wrote:

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Cheaper:
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=usb+isolator
<https://www.adafruit.com/product/2107
--  
Jeff Liebermann     snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D    http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
On 2018/11/27 7:56 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
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I had tried ferrite filters on the original USB cables, and while they  
helped it did not work nearly as well as the shielded cables did. Once  
the game was running reliably in the shop I did not try the ferrite  
collars on the new shielded cables but simply sent the game home after  
testing for a few days. And it's indeed a tough life my staff and I  
lead, forced to play pinball to check proper game operation!

As for the USB interface on the IO boards the board has a 2KV  
opto-isolation interface designed into it.

The USB cables are MOLEX, so that suggests a reasonable level of  
quality, does it not?

John :-#)#
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Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
T snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

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  It depends.  They make the connector ends, but they do not make the  
wire/cable AFAIK.  So even they outsource for their raw goods.

  I have found that the flat wires *with* cloth overbraid are pretty good.

  Micro B or just B?

  If micro, the gamers who make cables for the controllers make really good  
ones.

  Look up cables made by Bionik if it is micro B



  If the regular, Belkin makes pretty good stuff, but it is expensive.

Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?

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Is
_

  Do a google search under google images for 'USB with ferrite"
and a byunch pop up.  Many look very well done.

  It really ends up being trial and error.

  For a good brand, see if Anker has ferrite beaded versions.  Even if  
not they make good stuff.

Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?

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Iso
_i

  True, there are ferrite beaded USB cables out there.  That would  
likely solve his problem if it is indeed noise related.  I am still  
going with intermittent connectivity at the connector latches something  
up.

Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
snipped-for-privacy@notreal.com wrote in

snip
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snip

  B&B went and got all greedy.

  Those prices are worse than audio enthusiast crap.

  Rugged my ass.  Plastic case...   not rugged.
Hardly.

  Individual port/cable isolation is plenty and a hell of a lot cheaper.

Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
On Fri, 30 Nov 2018 05:05:05 +0000 (UTC), DLUNU

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The second one has a steel case.  You're wrong, as always,
AlwaysWrong.
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And a real mess.

Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?

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  It was not the one claiming to be rugged.

  ot wrong, but you are.

Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
On Sat, 1 Dec 2018 18:32:26 +0000 (UTC), DLUNU

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But you generalized, AlwayWrong.  You're wrong and insist on proving
it...

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...always.

Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
it may not be sufficient if the USB is opto coupled on the board because ground of computer and pinball may still be connected.

We had this on a very high cost very precise power supply where the USB was opto coupled but the USB socket connected to case of power supply.

To measure nA/pA with this setup, we needed one of these USB isolators which separate the shields of the two USB  cables.


Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 05:09:30 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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I wouldn't expect any of this stuff to be isolated in the nA range.  I
use it for audio stuff but mainly to make sure stuff keeps its smoke
on the inside.  Anything with a PC (particularly a laptop) in it can
be a grounding nightmare. Isolated hubs make things a lot simpler.

Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?

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There exist galvanically isolated USB adaptors, for example:
 https://www.ebay.com/itm/152382773951

Ground loops can create bad USB connections.
And use decent shielded cables, not the very thin cheap ones.

Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
On 28/11/18 09:09, snipped-for-privacy@nospam.org wrote:
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<https://www.audiosanctuary.co.uk/vertere-pulse-hb-double-usb-cable.html



Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
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LOL
in a way sad, poor guys who fall for that...



Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?

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Regards,

Boris Mohar

Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca

void _-void-_ in the obvious place

  

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https://www.avast.com/antivirus


Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 4:18:21 AM UTC-5, Boris Mohar wrote:
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l>
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But they only come in one length.  I needed a 1.1 meter cable... darn!  

  Rick C.  

  Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

Re: USB cables - which is best for noise rejection?
email.me:

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  Bwuahahahahahah!  Must be for "audio enthusiasts".  The charger is thre  
times that price.

  Hahahahahaha!

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