Universal Health "Care"

cardiac arrest means they die. "

Not always. My Grandfather had a heart attack and they said he had one prev iously though never sought treatment, and may have not even been aware of i t.

That was one of the things we joked around about at his funeral. It was in the parking lot of a boneyard the family almost bought (a veritable gold mi ne) but the brothers (my Uncles) were always arguing. One of them quipped a t the funeral "Yeah, it was probably the ridiculous price he got". Then my Uncle, the youngest siblings had a heart attack but he dropped dead right t here. he had just gotten a clean bill of health for his cataract operation and could finally see. Well he was holding a ladder for his daughter in law who was picking apples on his property. We figure maybe he saw a little bi t too much eh ?

Death doesn't scare any of us. We have a few other ways I consider honorabl e and good but I doubt you would understand.

Exist your existence. Meantime, if I ever get shot again like on February 2

5th, 1985, I will again insist on walking into the hospital if possible and absolutely refuse all pain killers. Pain is the body's way of telling the brain to send resources to heal, and after getting shot in the face by a .3 8 about an inch under my left eye they discharged me from the hospital in f ive days. There is a record of this somewhere. I joked around that it wreck ed my whole weekend. My Father yells "Don't take this so lightly, up a litt le higher you could've lost that eye !". Of course disregarding the brain r ight behind it. That was worth a chuckle.

It is so much better living, actually living without the deathly fear of d eath. People should try it.

Idiot. Cardiac arrest heart attack. Other than both are problems with the heart, they have nothing to do with each other.

Then kill yourself.

Idiot.

You're lying, of course. ...or insane.

Too dumb to read.

"IKWYABWAI". What a dumbass.

That sort of crude insulting can ruin one of the few still-active usenet groups.

It's cheap and easy and destructive.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics

and daft. Plenty of people aren't filled with fear of death, and changing all their life choices to try to minimise every risk. If that seems alien to Kevin he could do with broadenening his world experience.

NT

Typical response from those who are highly influenced. The indoctrinated. A nyone who disagrees must be insane or stupid, there is no room for other op inions. There are no other sane and informed opinions but ours, how could p eople not see how right we are in everything and how wrong so many are when they disagree ? The world owes you, and therefore it owes me, and how coul d anyone not be insane to not take all the gifts paid for by the loving and caring members of the society ? Those who care so much they would put one in a (locked up) facility to allow professionals to help them see the light , to see the right that is... us. We who care. We who prevent people from k illing themselves, protect them from themselves. It is we who are responsib le for the well being of the stupid and suffering. And we're damn proud of it !

I got your number.

previously though never sought treatment, and may have not even been aware of it.

in the parking lot of a boneyard the family almost bought (a veritable gol d mine) but the brothers (my Uncles) were always arguing. One of them quipp ed at the funeral "Yeah, it was probably the ridiculous price he got". Then my Uncle, the youngest siblings had a heart attack but he dropped dead rig ht there. he had just gotten a clean bill of health for his cataract operat ion and could finally see. Well he was holding a ladder for his daughter in law who was picking apples on his property. We figure maybe he saw a littl e bit too much eh ?

rable and good but I doubt you would understand.

ry 25th, 1985, I will again insist on walking into the hospital if possible and absolutely refuse all pain killers. Pain is the body's way of telling the brain to send resources to heal, and after getting shot in the face by a .38 about an inch under my left eye they discharged me from the hospital in five days. There is a record of this somewhere. I joked around that it w recked my whole weekend. My Father yells "Don't take this so lightly, up a little higher you could've lost that eye !". Of course disregarding the bra in right behind it. That was worth a chuckle.

of death. People should try it.

And John Larkin makes a habit of it, as here. Krw has been doing it for yea rs, and hasn't wrecked the group yet. Anybody who cared about it would have long since kill-filed him.

Sadly, it isn't nearly destructive enough. Krw keeps on coming back for mor e.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

If the drugs are beneficial and will greatly increase you healthy and active lifespan then refusing to take them on pseudo religious grounds of not wanting to take a tablet every day is pretty dumb.

Diuretics are commonly prescribed to control blood pressure and minimise the risk of stroke or heart attack. You could easily precipitate yourself into the sort of permanently invalided poor health state that you say you want to avoid by refusing to control your blood pressure.

Or alternatively as one of my colleagues used to do having several grammes of salt with every meal (note the use of past tense).

It may well be preferable to having a shorter and much less healthy outcome by refusing to take prescribed medication. It is obviously your choice but you should truly understand what the consequences of your choices may be. Ill advised choices didn't work out well for Steve Jobs.

--
Regards, 
Martin Brown

In the UK it is done formally by a Lasting Power of Attorney which allows a trusted friend or relative to make decisions in the best interests of the incapacitated patient. If there is no other provision then a team of medics, the lead consultant and selected next of kin have a meeting to determine the patients best interests and agree on actions.

This thread arose as a result of a case with a major schism between the medical practitioners (whose clinical judgement was that keeping a baby alive artificially with no brain and deteriorating muscle function was unkind) and the desperate parents who fought them tooth and nail through every court in the land and then the EU and losing on every occasion.

The medics (usually a senior consultant) make the decision ultimately but they do it in consultation with the next of kin. I found it curious that you have to sign for an Amazon parcel but not for a DNR.

I was surprised how much the consultants have to put up with from unreasonable relatives expectations (and the fact that under such stressful conditions relatives often deny they were asked/told).

CPR keeps the patient alive until the defibrillator/crash cart can be hooked up. Seeing one used isn't for the faint hearted.

They watch US medical soaps on TV with outcomes that are 75% success.

--
Regards, 
Martin Brown

allows a trusted friend or relative to make decisions in the best interests of the incapacitated patient. If there is no other provision then a team of medics, the lead consultant and selected next of kin have a meeting to determine the patients best interests and agree on actions. "

Well I have saved them the trouble. It is my decision and I made it. Mind y ou, other than last August I had been in several near death situations. I'v e been cut up, shot, and in car accidents that would put hair on your chest , curl it and take it off all in one fell swoop.

Why ?

Maybe that's why some devout Jews take their kids to see a ritual slaughter . It takes that squeamish streak out of them I imagine. Actually I support it, and I do not care about the animal in that case. It is usually only a f ew minutes, it is not like they are abused for years and have the SPCA on T V all day begging for money to save them. I say euthenise them and jail the ir abusers. Not for the sake of the animals, for the sake of the society th at might have to suffer their behavioural aberration(s). Quite a few serial killers started out torturing animals, they need to be watched.

They,not I. And if I do watch TV I know it is fantasy, as did all my little cousins. Allowed to watch extremely violent and off normal movies at a you ng age, due to their upbringing not one of them has become abusive in any w ay, or anything else. Many people do not realize that even what they purpor t on TV as reality is not reality. That is another thing we know before goi ng to school. Meantime others were jumping out of windows because of Orwell 's "War Of The Worlds" radio broadcast. I have listened to the original rec ording and see how the gullible could be fooled. The fact does not instill much confidence in people to say the least.

He doesn't refuse to take *all* medication, only those prescribed by doctors. He is willing to self medicate with a Smith and Wesson and I would not presume to deny him that right.

Rick

a meeting to determine the patients best interests and agree on actions. "

you, other than last August I had been in several near death situations. I 've been cut up, shot, and in car accidents that would put hair on your che st, curl it and take it off all in one fell swoop.

er. It takes that squeamish streak out of them I imagine. Actually I suppor t it, and I do not care about the animal in that case. It is usually only a few minutes, it is not like they are abused for years and have the SPCA on TV all day begging for money to save them. I say euthenise them and jail t heir abusers. Not for the sake of the animals, for the sake of the society that might have to suffer their behavioural aberration(s). Quite a few seri al killers started out torturing animals, they need to be watched.

le cousins. Allowed to watch extremely violent and off normal movies at a y oung age, due to their upbringing not one of them has become abusive in any way, or anything else. Many people do not realize that even what they purp ort on TV as reality is not reality. That is another thing we know before g oing to school. Meantime others were jumping out of windows because of Orwe ll's "War Of The Worlds" radio broadcast. I have listened to the original r ecording and see how the gullible could be fooled. The fact does not instil l much confidence in people to say the least.

I'm actually concerned about this guy. His writing is becoming less and le ss coherent. He starts a paragraph and contradict himself before he finish es it. WTF?

Rick C.

I see you're still struggling with reading comprehension.

less coherent."

Sorry about your lack of intellect.

"

Cite ? You obviously know how to quote without understanding, can you find that to which you refer ? ButI probably expect too much. You only have opin ions that only you respect, I certainly don't.

Wash your eyes out with a disinfectant, you might have caught something rea ding this. if you live as your writing implies you could not possibly have an immune system nor could your body have the ability to heal itself. Be ca reful, maybe you should wear rubber gloves all the time. You know how many GERMS there are out there. Oh, and take an aspirin at the first sign of hea dache, you know of course that they last your entire life without chemical intervention. We can't have that, it is plain that everyone has the inalien able right to live their whole life without even the slightest pain. Isn't that self evident with all these opiates and opioids flying around like can dy ?

And wear a helmet at all times. You never know when a light fixture, part o f Skylab or dangerous bird shit could fall on you.

People thought I was bad for saying exactly the same thing.

Or, very commonly, congestive heart failure.

Again, he's either lying or insane.

d less coherent."

F? "

d that to which you refer ? ButI probably expect too much. You only have op inions that only you respect, I certainly don't.

eading this. if you live as your writing implies you could not possibly hav e an immune system nor could your body have the ability to heal itself. Be careful, maybe you should wear rubber gloves all the time. You know how man y GERMS there are out there. Oh, and take an aspirin at the first sign of h eadache, you know of course that they last your entire life without chemica l intervention. We can't have that, it is plain that everyone has the inali enable right to live their whole life without even the slightest pain. Isn' t that self evident with all these opiates and opioids flying around like c andy ?

of Skylab or dangerous bird shit could fall on you.

Seems most europeans live like that nowadays.

and less coherent."

WTF? "

ind that to which you refer ? ButI probably expect too much. You only have opinions that only you respect, I certainly don't.

reading this. if you live as your writing implies you could not possibly h ave an immune system nor could your body have the ability to heal itself. B e careful, maybe you should wear rubber gloves all the time. You know how m any GERMS there are out there. Oh, and take an aspirin at the first sign of headache, you know of course that they last your entire life without chemi cal intervention. We can't have that, it is plain that everyone has the ina lienable right to live their whole life without even the slightest pain. Is n't that self evident with all these opiates and opioids flying around like candy ?

rt of Skylab or dangerous bird shit could fall on you.

It didn't look like that when I lived in Europe from 1971 to 2013, and hasn 't looked like that when I've visited (which I've done for about a month or so every year since) but NT may well live in some kind of right-wing encla ve for the moderately insane - he'd certainly be at home there.

In particular, the Dutch don't go in for cycling helmets, which are compuls ory in Australia. Cycling is a lot more dangerous in Australia - local coun cils don't like spending money on proper bike routes - but if you do fall o ff your bike, a helmet significant reduces the chance of brain injury, and it can happen on the safest bike route (though it is less likely to happen) .

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Wearing a bike helmet makes sense in general, but it probably makes little difference on the nice smooth bike paths in the Netherlands.

I slid on ice on my bike on a steep downward-sloping hill just after a curve in the road, and whacked the back of my head off the road. I was wearing my helmet - I could get up immediately and move off the road. Without a helmet, I'd have been lying there when the next car came round the bend, with little chance of stopping before it would have hit me.

The chances of a bike helmet being a major benefit may be small, but they are not zero.

they are not zero. "

Then wear it. It is your choice.

I won't tell you what to do.

DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO.