True or Scam ?

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I found this followed up from article in eeNewsembedded.

http://facecompanies.com/Evercell/

There were things in the eeNews article and more on the Evercell website  
which make me think it's all hype and scam.

They don't say where the energy is coming from  - which makes me think  
that there can't be any !

MK

---
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Re: True or Scam ?
On Wednesday, April 3, 2019 at 8:16:31 AM UTC-4, Michael Kellett wrote:
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A quick scan.. looks like a TEG  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator
But why not some big heat sink fins?  

George h.  

Re: True or Scam ?
On 03/04/2019 13:16, Michael Kellett wrote:
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It looks *very* CAVEAT EMPTOR to me. I don't doubt that they can  
generate a small thermocouple potential from two different metals but  
the patent looks like the sort of flim flam for a disguised perpetual  
motion machine that I thought USPTO were supposed have stopped accepting.
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Usually it comes from a heat engine of some sort working between two  
*different* temperatures. Sounds to me like they are claiming to have  
harnessed Maxwell's demon sorting hot atoms from cold ones.

That said you could do a very convincing fake electrostatic grade power  
device that lasts almost forever using ancient Zamboni pile technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zamboni_pile

--  
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: True or Scam ?
On Wednesday, 3 April 2019 13:37:25 UTC+1, Martin Brown  wrote:
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hink  
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Looks like a basic R&D scam. Separating molecules by temperature difference
 /passively/, no.


NT

Re: True or Scam ?
On 4/3/19 8:37 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
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They address some of those concerns in the FAQ.

<http://facecompanies.com/evercellfaq/

I don't know enough about materials science or thermodynamics to really  
give a take on it but at least they do seem to acknowledge some common  
engineering objections in a fairly transparent way which seems more  
upstanding than many scams.

I would not immediately assume it is a scam but the amount of  
deliverable power at room temperature will surely be quite small, so  
applications will be limited to the use cases they state e.g. micropower  
remote sensing.

A module you could use to replace the battery in battery-backed CMOS  
SRAM in older equipment that you never had to replace and had  
theoretically-infinite retention too (unlike a supercapacitor, say)  
would be kinda cool.

Re: True or Scam ?
On 03/04/2019 17:58, bitrex wrote:
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They may even believe what they are saying too, but it looks to me after  
reading their FAQ that they have built a Zamboni pile of sorts.

They should have announced it on 1st April for good measure.

--  
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: True or Scam ?
On 4/3/19 1:14 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
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Right, as I say they may be mistaken about the effect they're seeing but  
that doesn't immediately imply malice aforethought. Sometimes that Kool  
Aid you make yourself is just so tempting.

It'll come out in the wash eventually.

Re: True or Scam ?
On 4/3/19 1:14 PM, Martin Brown wrote:
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I'm probably not going to invest in that one I'm saving my pennies. I  
really want to invest in "Electricity" I think that's the technology to  
go with. I looked thru the stock section of the paper trying to find the  
symbol for Electricity, Inc. but unfortunately I couldn't find it, maybe  
they haven't done an IPO, yet.

But anyway I have an electric car and electric cigarette from them so I  
think the writing's on the wall - this "electricity" stuff is going to  
be really big, someday.

Re: True or Scam ?
On Wed, 3 Apr 2019 18:14:13 +0100, Martin Brown

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There's a lot of money to be made, or at least raised, violating
Conservation of Energy.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc
picosecond timing   precision measurement  

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Re: True or Scam ?
On Wednesday, April 3, 2019 at 2:33:30 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
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ing.

e  
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y  
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I figure it has to be a battery or thermo-electric gizmo.
There is this mumbo jumbo about tunneling, tunneling is  
fairly common.  Low voltage Zeners, some metal semi-conudctor
junctions.  
A diode could be described as a 'Maxwellian' demon, in that  
it selects just the high energy electrons to cross the barrier.  

George H.  
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Re: True or Scam ?
On 03/04/2019 19:33, John Larkin wrote:
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If you could really do it then it would shatter modern physics.

I think their website is a cunning concoction of true statements about  
modern photonics research in physics and unmitigated marketing hype.

Here is a genuine scientific paper on quantum optics implementation of  
Maxwells demon - note that it involves cunning manipulation of laser  
light (not just background thermal radiation).

--  
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: True or Scam ?
On 2019/04/04 1:30 a.m., Martin Brown wrote:
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ut
al

 me
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o
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ter



(no link was provided to the paper mentioned just above)

Indeed a scam that any magician worth his/her salt could readily  
disprove. How about wrapping the 'device' in a double Faraday Cage and  
see what happens then. First FC has the device and wires coming out  
leading to a measurement device that is inside a second all-enclosing FC  

to record the output of said device in the innermost FC.

This would be a monumental discovery - Maxwell's Demon indeed! Not even  
as good as Cold Fusion though, as CF at least had some theory behind it..
.

Where are the scientific papers and the patents?

John :-#(#


Re: True or Scam ?
On 04/04/2019 16:50, John Robertson wrote:
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Oops! Here it is:

http://www.fhi-berlin.mpg.de/mp/friedrich/PDFs/NaturePhotonics2008_MarFri.pdf

Several other groups have done similar tricks recently. This one has the  
nicest diagrams and a decent explanation without too much maths.
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--  
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: True or Scam ?
On Wednesday, 3 April 2019 17:58:12 UTC+1, bitrex  wrote:
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g.

think  
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not satisfactorily. Energy from nowhere scams are ten a penny. If they want
 their claims to be credible they need to do a whole lot more than they hav
e, at which point they'll discover they failed to understand what was happe
ning. If they avoid that, which they always do, they run into 'issues of sc
aling' or some such.

Their discussion of replacing batteries is highly misleading. Their largest
 module claims to output a massive 5 microwatts, leaving it entirely predic
tably a very expensive & lousy substitute for a cheap coin cell. So even if
 everything they say is 100% true, it's still a scam.


NT

Re: True or Scam ?
On 3-4-2019 23:50, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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I bet there is a zinc/air battery hidden somewhere.

You can fool people easily at such low power levels.(see google).

Re: True or Scam ?
On Wednesday, April 3, 2019 at 8:16:31 AM UTC-4, Michael Kellett wrote:
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What I read talks about Maxwell's demon.  They also talk about separating t
he more energetic from the less energetic molecules in the unit and working
 with the ambient temperature.  No mention of a hot and a cold source.  So  
this sounds to me like zero-point energy.  Bottom line is it appears to be  
violating basic laws of thermodynamics.  

I wouldn't worry about it.  If it pans out we will know.  

--  

  Rick C.

  - Get a 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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Re: True or Scam ?
On Wednesday, 3 April 2019 17:53:29 UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com  wrote:
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 the more energetic from the less energetic molecules in the unit and worki
ng with the ambient temperature.  No mention of a hot and a cold source.  S
o this sounds to me like zero-point energy.  Bottom line is it appears to b
e violating basic laws of thermodynamics.  
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I'm sure it'll pan out very well for the researchers. They won't even need  
to do any research.

Re: True or Scam ?
On 4/3/19 12:53 PM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
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They address some of those concerns in the FAQ.

<http://facecompanies.com/evercellfaq/

The claim is that with whatever this new research is with some  
fancy-schmancy materials science at very small power levels  
thermodynamics is not violated.

The power output will be small. It will not run your PC or even your  
cell phone.

Re: True or Scam ?
On 4/3/19 1:00 PM, bitrex wrote:
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" 5?W device: 34mm X 34mm X 1mm ? 1.2V output, 4.2?A continuous current"

not exactly headline-shattering "free energy"

Re: True or Scam ?
On Wednesday, April 3, 2019 at 1:03:41 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
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:
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ite

 think
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ot  

  
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.

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ntinuous current"
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Yes, I saw that too.  For the size, you sure don't get much power,
which will greatly limit the useful applications.



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