Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.

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An article from 2015:

3-D-printed car could hit streets next year. Chris Woodyard, USA TODAY 4:48  
p.m. EST November 12, 2015
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/11/10/3d-printed-car-local-motors-swim/75530830/

Several companies have come out with what they call "3D-printed" cars, but  
none have 3D-printed the most important part, the engine.

This would be difficult to do with an internal combustion engine, with its  
high temperatures, multiple moving parts, and high tolerances.

But it shouldn't be too difficult with an electric engine. In fact  
considering there are now miniature 3D-printers on the market for the home,  
an amateur could be the first to produce an entire, scale-size, 3D-printed  
car.
And then it could be scaled up to produce a full-size, working, fully  
3D-printed automobile.

This would revolutionize the industry, obviously.

The two most difficult parts would be the engine and the transmission.

This video shows how you can make your own simple electric motor:

How to Make an Electric Motor at Home - YouTube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p2QTE26VOA


Looking at the steps in the video, it appears they could all be accomplished  
by 3D-printing.


  Bob Clark

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize  
21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital  
launchers, to 'flying cars'.
This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it:

Nanotech: from air to space.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/nanotech-from-air-to-space/x/13319568/
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Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On 07/03/2017 08:31 AM, Robert Clark wrote:

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For a hobbyist trying to design/build their own electric vehicle  
acquiring or fabricating the chassis is literally the least difficult  
part of the job. Why would you want to make it _more_ difficult

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Why bother, it's not like high performance electric motors are rare.

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Insisting that every part of a homebrew EV also be 3D printed at home  
from one's personal 3D printer is a tits-on-a-bull project for turbodorks.


Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 6:04:10 AM UTC-7, bitrex wrote:
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Yes, 3D printed aluminum would be too expensive and unreliable. Much cheaper to die cast.

Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 5:31:25 AM UTC-7, Robert Clark wrote:
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Yes, everybody should build their own car, DIY.

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Why would you need transmission?  Tesla uses gear, no transmission.  My Maxwell 2020 use wheel hub motors, no transmission and no gear.



Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote on 7/3/2017 9:20 AM:
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Gears are used so the engine and wheels can turn at different speeds and  
achieve optimum torque and performance for a given weight.  The Tesla motor  
spins at a max rate over 10,000 RPM (don't recall the exact number) while  
the wheels turn at around 400 RPM at 60 MPH.  At 400 RPM the motor wouldn't  
have much power.  Also, mounting the motors in the hubs affects the  
sprung/unsprung weight ratio greatly impacting the ride quality.  Hub motors  
are *not* the right way to build an electric vehicle unless it's a forklift  
maybe.

I don't get your reference to a Maxwell 2020.  Is that an imaginary car or  
do you mean a 1920 car?  I couldn't find any mention of an electric Maxwell.  
  The present Maxwell company only makes ultracapacitors.

--  

Rick C

Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On Mon, 03 Jul 2017 08:31:17 -0400, Robert Clark wrote:

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Similar principle as 3d printing, GE Additive is making jet engine parts

http://www.geadditive.com/

--  
Chisolm
Republic of Texas


Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On Mon, 03 Jul 2017 11:09:23 -0500, Joe Chisolm

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Nanotech was the hot wave of the future 10 or 15 years ago. Aren't
people tired of buckyballs and nanotubes and graphene yet?

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But you couldn't 3D print a copper coil or a supermagnet or a ball
bearing. And additive is *slow*.




--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
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Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On Mon, 03 Jul 2017 09:54:51 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

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3D printers are a part of the process.  They give you the ability to generate
shapes that cannot be easily machined and that opens up a lot of new possibilities.
Possibly an air bearing to replace the ball bearing.

Granted jet engines are low volume high dollar items but with bigger build
areas you can print multiple copies of the same part at the same time.  Most
CNC cannot do that.  You CNC build 1 part at a time but rather fast.  If I
can print 10 parts at the same time on the same machine at < 10x the CNC time
then I'm ahead of the game and I get complex shapes the CNC cannot do.


--  
Chisolm
Republic of Texas


Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On Mon, 03 Jul 2017 18:02:35 -0500, Joe Chisolm

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3D fab the compressor, too?

The bulk of an electric motor is made of stacked stampings, something
like grain-oriented silicon steel. That's cheap to make and has good
mechanical and magnetic properties.

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Probably 100x the machining time. So far, additive is mostly demo
mode, more expensive than conventional processing.

Additive fab is fine, but it's mostly hype now.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
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Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On Mon, 03 Jul 2017 16:44:42 -0700, John Larkin wrote:

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Anything but hype.  The CFM Leap engine fuel nozzels are additive.  GE is putting
$400M into the turboprop for Cessna and many parts will be 3D.  They say 3D is
letting them consolidate 845 parts into just 11 components.  Reduces overall
complexity, inspection cost and maintaince cost.  And they are predicting
20% less fuel burn.

Not just GE.  Siemens is working on 3D gas turbine blades.  From their Feb 2017
presser
"Siemens has achieved a breakthrough by finishing its first full load engine tests  
for gas turbine blades completely produced using Additive Manufacturing (AM) technology.
The company successfully validated multiple AM printed turbine blades with a conventional
blade design at full engine conditions. This means the components were tested at 13,000
revolutions per minute and temperatures beyond 1,250 degrees Celsius.  Furthermore, Siemens  
tested a new blade design with a completely revised and improved internal cooling geometry  
manufactured using the AM technology."

Additive will probably never replace stamped or many formed or cast parts but you never know.
Years ago a billion transistors on a wafer was pure fantasy.

--  
Chisolm
Republic of Texas


Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On Tue, 04 Jul 2017 12:10:52 -0500, Joe Chisolm

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Additive manufacturing can't take credit for the improved fuel
efficiency.  15-20% is the target for the new generation of engines,
like GTF.

One interesting thing about consolidating a lot of parts into one 3D
printed part is that when anything wears out, you have to replace the
whole thing.

3D printing *is* mostly hype. You're going to see a lot of 3D printers
and fidget spinners and IoT-enabled lightbulbs at garage sales soon.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
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Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On 05/07/17 04:12, John Larkin wrote:
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Rocketlab's entire combustion chamber is 3D printed, complete
with detailed flow passages for cooling/fuel pre-heat. The
specific channel geometry achieves significant performance
advantages (weight reduction) and could not be manufactured
using conventional methods.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Lab#Electron

Clifford Heath.

Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
wrote:

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They have been in business for 11 years and haven't launched anything
into orbit. So the technology is still speculative.


--  

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc

jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com
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Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On 05/07/17 14:31, John Larkin wrote:
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They launched two weeks ago, and only narrowly missed orbit.
The engines have had many successful stationary tests, the
design seems pretty solid.

They're targeting a price and payload configuration that hasn't
been done before, is all. On an NZ budget, not a NASA one.

Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
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Arm waving nonsense.

You need multiple 3D printers if you need to print with multiple materials.

Consumer 3D printers print small parts from cheap plastic and cost hundreds
of dollars.

Industrial 3D printers that print large parts with metals cost hundreds of
thousands of dollars and the printing material costs more than raw metal
stock.

3D printing is advantageous for parts with complex shapes that are difficult
or impossible to make with other techniques but is disadvantageous for
most parts that ARE manufacturable with conventional techniques as they
can be made faster and cheaper.

3D printing makes PARTS that still need to be assembled.

3D printing an electric motor is just silly.

  

--  
Jim Pennino

Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
says...
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I'm generally in agreement with all of the above.  That motor which was  
3D printed is a toy.  That toy motor is far simpler than a stepper  
motor, so any thought of 3D printers printing other 3D printers is just  
a fantasy at this point.  

Today's "state of the art" of 3D printing does not make it a panacea for  
manufacturing.  Furthermore, 3D printing with locally produced (non-
earth) materials is decades away.  

But progress is being made in the field.  GE is working on producing a  
3D printer capable of printing 1 meter x 1 meter x 1 meter parts.  This  
is coming from its aircraft engine division.  3D printing is a very hot  
topic these days.  

Jeff
--  
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.  
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,  
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Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
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3D printing requires special raw stock manufactured just for 3D printing
no matter what the print material is.

3D printing is slow and expensive compared to any other method of making
parts so only become economical if the part in question is so complex that
3D printing it is cheaper than any other method.

The cost and speed of 3D printing will obviously never match that of
stamping out sheet metal, casting, or NC machining.

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Yes, for very complex parts that would otherwise have to be made in
pieces then somehow assempled.

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--  
Jim Pennino

Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
says...
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Actually if the 3D printed part replaces many other parts (e.g.  
SuperDraco engines) then it's faster to print than it is to manufacture  
and assemble all those other parts.  But that does fall under your "so  
complex" exception because in that case it is cheaper to print than try  
to use other manufacturing techniques.  

In aerospace, think things like liquid fueled rocket engine combustion  
chambers with lots of tiny internal cooling passages.  Those are a  
p.i.t.a. to make using conventional manufacturing techniques, but a  
breeze to 3D print.

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For "trivial" parts, that is true.  I installed a new garage door at  
home a few weeks ago.  Lots of stamped sheet metal parts there, even the  
hinges.  

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Exactly.

Also, the other option that 3D printing opens up is more shape optimized  
parts.  These things are optimized so that "useless" mass is simply gone  
from the design.  They tend to look "organic" rather than "machined" due  
to their complex shapes.  I've heard this called "light-weighting" parts  
from management types.  

Jeff  
--  
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.  
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,  
We've slightly trimmed the long signature. Click to see the full one.
Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
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And the total market for such things is a tiny fraction of all things
manufactured, or even of all 4 slice toasters manufactured.

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My estimate is that for all things manufactured parts that can be made
cheaper and faster by conventional means amount to about 99.99%.

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And about the only place where weight matters that much is in things
that fly and in that case useless mass is already gone from the design
without the expense of 3D printing.

Have you ever looked at the interior structures of an aircraft?

3D printing is, and always will be, a niche manufacturing method.

Handy at times, but certainly not a world changer.


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--  
Jim Pennino

Re: Towards the *fully* 3D-printed electric cars.
On Monday, 3 July 2017 22:01:11 UTC+1, snipped-for-privacy@specsol.spam.sux.com  wrote:
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current ones do. Hopefully that'll change. Feed it your washed broken dustpan, it'll see how stiff the plastic is and at what temp it softens, work out what plastics it could be and print something suitable from your wish list. It most likely will happen.

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Today it is, because bent sheet has been around so long. Imagine having a 3D printer at home that produces all your plastic goods. You never need buy plastic item again. Doesn't matter that it takes all night to produce one item.

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...Today


It matters everywhere because material is cost

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It sounds like you've not seen 3D printed houses, done in hours each. Now there's another mass market for it.


NT

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