Tool for circuit manufacturing

That your "usenet drama class" grade was an F for showing up here just to spam a product you are probably associated with while pretending you were just curious and helpful. A very bad pretense. Crawl back under your bridge and stay there.

what you thought about it:

process.

We had a gadget like that. It was a real pain to use. It makes more sense to order a batch of proper plated-through, solder masked, silkscreened boards from a quick-turn service.

Serious boards are multilayers anyhow.

Nico, why did you bother !!!

what you thought about it:

"Pre-order Now"

It's not even a real product !!

And NO link to where you are located !!

And Godaddy says your a fraud too:

Domain Name: PROTOCHEETAH.COM Created on: 18-Jun-13 Expires on: 18-Jun-14 Last Updated on: 18-Jun-13

Registrant: Domains By Proxy, LLC DomainsByProxy.com 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309 Scottsdale, Arizona 85260 United States

Administrative Contact: Private, Registration snipped-for-privacy@domainsbyproxy.com Domains By Proxy, LLC DomainsByProxy.com 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309 Scottsdale, Arizona 85260 United States (480) 624-2599 Fax -- (480) 624-2598

Technical Contact: Private, Registration snipped-for-privacy@domainsbyproxy.com Domains By Proxy, LLC DomainsByProxy.com 14747 N Northsight Blvd Suite 111, PMB 309 Scottsdale, Arizona 85260 United States (480) 624-2599 Fax -- (480) 624-2598

process.

Ah you guys are quick.

My move was not ill-intentioned. We're actually building the prototype right now and we wanted to know if people were interested in what we're spending time on. But just saying that kind of kills the purpose of non-biased feedback.

The website doesn't ask for any specific information.

Thank you for your feedback John. We realize multi-layer boards are highly used, but we have to focus on some basic functions for the moment.

or what you thought about it:

the process.

..then why did you need to tell lies?

However good your product might turn out to be, I don't suppose anyone here would buy it now they know they would have to deal with a liar

now and we wanted to know if people were interested in what we're spending time on. But just saying that kind of kills the purpose of non-biased feedback.

used, but we have to focus on some basic functions for the moment.

We had a machine like that and got rid of it. Milling PCBs doesn't make a lot of sense. For a quick breadboard, I hack a chunk of FR4 with a Dremel or an x-acto knife, and use the Bellin SOT adapters. Anything seriously complex, like a test fixture, we send Gerbers to a PC house for a proper board. But we don't prototype as such: our first Gerber is usually the rev A production board. Prototyping is a bad habit.

But you appear to be a lying spammer, which isn't good for business either. Why didn't you say outright who you were and where the project was in time?

now and we wanted to know if people were interested in what we're spending time on. But just saying that kind of kills the purpose of non-biased feedback.

You might be able to fake/scam/cheat people with a $1499 PCB desktop machine, but no way to do an assembly machine for that kind of money and size. Real assembly machines are room size and your target customers are professions.

You might have a better chance at kickstarter, until they kick you out.

now and we wanted to know if people were interested in what we're spending time on. But just saying that kind of kills the purpose of non-biased feedback.

but no way to do an assembly machine for that kind of money and size. Real assembly machines are room size and your target customers are professions.

Proto-cheater.

now and we wanted to know if people were interested in what we're spending time on. But just saying that kind of kills the purpose of non-biased feedback.

In this world, you will need a utube video of you machine in operation.

A new video a week until it gets traction.

Its a new world for small companies trying to bring an unkown product to market.

Good Luck

hamilton

I'm not sure how you can possibly feel that engaging in deceptive marketing practices is "not ill-intentioned". Particularly ones that are so transparent that they insult the intelligence of the ones you're trying to decieve.

(Hint: whenever a brand-new name shows up on a newsgroup or forum saying "Hey life-long friends! I just tried this and it works GREAT!" followed by a URL, it's always some insincere yahoo trying to shill a product. You are not, by a very long shot, the brilliant inventor of a brand new and effective marketing technique.)

I'm sure that there's a niche for products like that, but I suspect it's rather narrow. Here's why:

A day or three of delay between firing a Gerber off to a board house and getting a board back generally fits quite well into a serious design process. What you get back from a quick turn house is is a board that is a near-exact representative of what your manufacturing folks will need to deal with -- not just something that you can build a circuit on. Yes, it costs several hundred dollars, but if you're charging an honest rate for your work, that's peanuts.

If the several hundred dollars for a quick-turn board is a barrier, then you're a hobbyist and there's a good chance that one of the Chinese PCB repackaging services (like SparkFun's) will do you just fine, because you can afford to wait a week for a cheap board.

As for board assembly, a good guy with an assembly microscope and a pair of tweezers can assemble a board pretty damned quick, and he can deal with parts far smaller than 0804. Moreover, any serious engineering lab needs an assembly microscope anyway, for rework, so the additional capital necessary is zero.

If you had reflow ovens and I didn't know you felt that insincerity was a vital component of interactions with your potential customer base I might have some small interest -- but you've taken yourself out of the pool of potential vendors for me, for sure.

now and we wanted to know if people were interested in what we're spending time on. But just saying that kind of kills the purpose of non-biased feedback.

used, but we have to focus on some basic functions for the moment.

So Nick, how do you like the welcome wagon?

You might want to provide a little more info on what your machine does and what it doesn't do. Just saying PCB creation isn't saying a lot.

Can your machine work with designs done on other CAD systems? I'm not real excited about using custom software to lay out boards. I have a CAD package I like. Can your device work with my Gerber files? If not, is there perhaps some other format that it would accept that my CAD package might be coaxed into producing.

BTW, although I think you have learned what the folks here didn't like about your initial post, you can safely ignore their "attitude". They are like that with everyone, including each other.

now and we wanted to know if people were interested in what we're spending time on. But just saying that kind of kills the purpose of non-biased feedback.

but no way to do an assembly machine for that kind of money and size. Real assembly machines are room size and your target customers are professions.

Actually there are several desktop assembly (pick & place) machines already on the market.

That depends a bit on what kind of project your working on. It takes me about an hour to etch a board myself which is great for proof-of-concept circuits.

Exactly. A serious design needs FPGA design, firmware, manuals, test fixtures, test procedures, web pages, all sorts of stuff. There's plenty to do while waiting for a stuffed board. And there's always the next design to work on. We usually go 2-week turn on bare boards, rarely 1 week. We certainly don't have anyone cheap enough to nursemaid a board milling machine.

There may be a market for a low cost semi-auto pick-and place, for people who want to assemble their own first articles or small production runs in-house; probably many exist already. We have two Essemtec semi-autos, and they are excellent, but they are $30K each. Full auto probably isn't practical at the target price of a few K$.

Of course, anybody who wants to do p-n-p needs a solder stencil capability, reflow, and cleaning too. As you say, it might make more sense to just hand assemble and solder.

The crowdsourcing/prepay trend, combined with SolidWorks or the equivalent to fake product photos, has created a lot of imiginary products. Arguably interesting, arguably fraud.

My design cycle is generally to design a board as close to correct as I can manage the first time around, then fix it with little green wires as necessary on the second iteration.

Those few times when I need proof-of-concept circuits I deal with them with a protoboard and through-hole components, or by dead-bugging, or with an evaluation board from the manufacturer.

Of course, if I were working with RF circuits I may have a different take on the utility of fast prototyping.

right now and we wanted to know if people were interested in what we're sp ending time on. But just saying that kind of kills the purpose of non-biase d feedback.

hine, but no way to do an assembly machine for that kind of money and size. Real assembly machines are room size and your target customers are profes sions.

Well, i would like to see some links. The real machines can feed from mult iple tubes and pans, with video imaging, sorting and picking. These machin es are built for speed of manufacturing. Manual sorting and swapping feede rs would slow them down significantly.

But for prototyping, speeding up a few minutes would not make a whole lot o f differences. I don't know how you guys do prototypes, but i solder a few part at a time, test and check back and forth. I don't think an assembly machine would be too helpful for prototyping.

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Yes, it is best for newbies to lurk for awhile and then make an honest introductory post or contribute to discussions before trying to hawk a new product of questionable merits, with an often-used mechanism of deception that usually screams "scam" and "spam", and the response will be "scram".

There is someone I know from another forum who might be able to use such a machine for short-run production of very high current PCBs where he wants 4 oz to 10 oz copper. But it will involve large power components and heavy

wire terminals that pretty much need thru-holes, and the lack of that ability is a serious limitation. For such high power boards, eyelets may be a good option to replace thru-holes, and even soldering on both sides would not be a serious drawback. These are kits for DIY high power DC-DC converters, power supplies, battery chargers, and motor controllers, and are sold in small volumes where mechanical "printing" or "routing" of PCBs may be ideal.

So this "idea" may fit a small niche market, but is unlikely to succeed where there are many superior alternatives for both hobbyists and professionals.

Paul

some of the cheap proto pcb shops makes stencils too.

something like:

a ~3600$ pick-n-place:

a ~220$ reflow oven:

-Lasse

AFAIK this is one:

True. These low cost machines are intended for small series runs. At this moment these machines still need a lot of improvement but the idea is there.