The phenomena of apparent negative resistance (but across all voltage ranges and without power source)

I would guess everybody is familar with Chung's research findings in

1998 regarding apparent negative resistance in carbon fiber composites (at room temperature, without a voltage source as required in conventional circuits and throughout all ranges of voltages tested, not just a specific range) ?

Allow me to post a source and a short commentary on this:

Deborah D.L. Chung's apparent negative resistance in carbon fiber composites

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and an analysis from Frank Znidarsic at

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is posted below:

On July 12, 1998 the University of Buffalo announced its discovery:

CARBON COMPOSITES SUPERCONDUCT AT ROOM TEMPERATURE

SUPERCONDUCTION AT ROOM TEMPERATURE: NEGATIVE ELECTRICAL RESISTANCE SEEN IN CARBON COMPOSITES

"LAS VEGAS -- Materials engineers at the University at Buffalo have made two discoveries that have enabled carbon-fiber materials to superconduct at room temperature.

The related discoveries were so unexpected that the researchers at first thought that they were mistaken.

Led by Deborah D.L. Chung, Ph.D., UB professor of mechanical and aerospace engineering, the engineers observed negative electrical resistance in carbon-composite materials, and zero resistance when these materials were combined with others that are conventional, positive resistors.....

This finding of negative resistance flies in the face of a fundamental law of physics: Opposites attract.

Chung explained that in conventional systems, the application of voltage causes electrons -- which carry a negative charge -- to move toward the high, or positive end, of the voltage gradient.

But in this case, the electrons move the other way, from the plus end of the voltage gradient to the minus end....................

"In this case, opposites appear not to attract," said Chung. The researchers are studying how this effect could be possible.".........

..............A patent application has been filed on the invention. Previous patents filed by other researchers on negative resistance have been limited to very narrow ranges of the voltage gradient.

In contrast, the UB researchers have exhibited negative resistance that does not vary throughout the entire gamut of the voltage gradient."7

Electrical engineers know that when electrons "move toward the high, or positive end, of the voltage gradient" power is produced. Have the University of Buffalo scientists discovered how to produce electricity directly from a zero point process?

Questions would be:

1) Is there a way to measure resistance (or conductance) in a circuit without using a conventional voltmeter or ohmmeter which all of them inject a tiny voltage into the circuit and then measure the return voltage loss (or gain) to determine the resistance ?

I am starting to develop a theory that the tiny voltage that conventional measuring instruments like voltmeters or ohmmeters inject into the circuit are what provides the voltage source in Chung's composite to allow it to behave as a negative resistor.

This is the reason I would like to see if there is a way to measure the resistance or conductance without using any voltage or current.

2) I am creating a compound carbon composite device based on Chung's work with my son to exhibit at the city wide science fair. Any suggestions would be appreciated as to circuit layout or as to incredibly small current / voltage draw devices that might be integrated into a circuit with this carbon fiber composite in order to attempt "tune" it to yield electrical flow as long as possible while showing off visibily or audibly that the circuit is still energized ?

One fellow suggested I use a proper value capacitor in series with a tiny battery and a pot "tunable" resistor in some manner combined with an Ultra Low Power LED Flasher which draws only 6 microamps from a 3v supply. He suggested I tune the pot resistor to zero resistance or slight negative resistance then somehow pull the battery out of the circuit and just let it run. I 've been searching and could not find a circuit that drew less power than this one at 6 microamps yet still had a nice visual or audible display. Heck, if I could find a LED or "visual displaying" circuit that only drew nanoamps at 3 V I'd use it, but I have not seen such.

Of course the voltmeter or ampmeter I would have in the display of the circuit to show the values would be contributing a tiny voltage and I'd have to account for that properly in the total mix.

I've been searching circuits trying to put together something to create something to show off the rather startling quality of this compound carbon composite "room temperature" negative resistor in a novel circuit (interestingly, it does not rely upon a microscopic hot cathode inside the device which bleeds away valuable energy as thermal losses either as do most conventional devices such as tunnel diodes, gunn diodes, etc).

If the battery was removed and the capacitor was of a rather insignificant farad value then any potential detractors would not be able to claim that the circuit was merely using the stored energy in the capacitor (after several hours) .

Reply to
ssarbot
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The fundamental law of physics that's being violated is conservation of energy.

Sounds like bad instrumentation to me.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

Same instrumentation they're using to measure average Earth temperatures in support of the AGW theory ?:-)

...Jim Thompson

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Reply to
Jim Thompson

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote: [SNIP]

Not that I'm aware of

I'm not familiar with this effect, but some quick Googling seems to suggest that it is, as you say in the subject line, APPARENT negative resistance, not actual negative resistance. Therefore I don't think you will be able to use this effect to keep a circuit energized after you remove the battery.

There are some details of the experimental set-up at the link below, and it appears to me that the DC power supply is an important part of the set-up.

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To reply to me directly:

Replace privacy.net with: totalise DOT co DOT uk and replace me with
gareth.harris
Reply to
Gareth

I'm slightly familiar with some of Ms. Chung's work at UB.. 'smart' materials (eg. composites) and such like.

It's a four terminal measurement, so I don't think so.

They used a Keithley 2001 multimeter.

Reply to
Spehro Pefhany

Reminds me of cold fusion... mostly bad calorimetry.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

A true negative resistor will generate a voltage, theoretically an infinite voltage, across its terminals, all by itself.

I built one once, a 2-termial -1K resistor in a box, and did a bunch of circuit experiments with it, as a class project. It was fun to plug negative values into all the classic voltage divider and RC and RLC equations, and see the waveforms on a scope.

Try something else. This is not going to work.

John

Reply to
John Larkin

"John Larkin"

** Try reading the links - f*****ad.

The " negative resistance " being alluded to is not the kind electronics engineers are used to.

** Just like feeling an elephant's tail with your eyes shut proves it is snake.

..... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

Scientific Laws that really are not laws - - - - and instruments with limitations.

Science is a mess for those who just follow the rules and never question the supposed "experts".

Why does it take a guy with a 4 year degree in agriculture to figure out something so basic ?

Any bright electrical engineering student knows that Ohm's law is not a law at all, it is not absolute - - and there actually are circuits and devices that violate Ohm's law. For one, differential negative resistance exhibited in Lambda circuits and tunnel diodes / Gunn diodes violate Ohm's law (these go back to the 1960's).

I got interested in the phenomena of apparent negative resistance reported in Carbon fiber composites in 1998 by Wang & Chung. I read how they used a standard lab grade Keithley multimeter with a 4 contact hookup, but I have now theorized that they mistakenly used an instrument that is not even capable of measuring negative resistance to begin with.

For one, all multimeters put out an excitation voltage, or an excitation current however small in order to measure the resistance of a circuit. At least for DC circuits, the caveman way of explaining is that all multimeters send out a "reference signal" or known level of voltage or current into the circuit and then measure what comes back out of the circuit (almost always with a loss which is how they calculate the resistance in Ohms).

But in carbon fiber laminates under high pressure Wang and Chung got back a negative value - - - essentially a higher voltage than went in. They were excited and went so far as to announce superconductivity at room temperature until the "higher ups" at their university made them retract their folly.

You see in this form of negative resistance the voltage goes up as the current decreases - - it's an inverse relationship violating Ohm's law in the process.

So to verify my theory, I called tech support for both Fluke & for Keithley, got an Elec. engineer on the phone and made them admit that all their instruments measure resistance based on Ohm's law. Then I prodded them about negative resistance, gave him a refresher course from their college text books and why they did not put disclaimer labels on the instruments or in the technical manual - - they could not answer. I reminded them the phenomena was real and the devices / circuits had been around since the 60's.

Then I inquired why not just measure the wattage - - in my case microwatts. You cannot deceive or be tricked with volts times amps = watts.

I thought about putting a multimeter on microvolts in series with a multimeter set on microamps in SERIES next to each other in the circuit - - then vary the power supply voltage to the circuit and plot the results. Of course one must consider the added effects or possible interferences by the 2 multimeters excitation signals . . . .

Your thoughts ?

Reply to
ssarbot

A voltmeter in series with an ammeter? What do you think you'd be measuring?

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

** Any science student knows that a " law " is a mathematical relationship between two variables.

it is not absolute - - and there actually are circuits

** You need to look up the " Law " discovered by Georg Ohm and see how it is worded.

Something about " metallic conductors at constant temperature " is involved....

Dick wad.

...... Phil

Reply to
Phil Allison

It's deja-vu all over again...

--

John Devereux
Reply to
John Devereux

"Negative Deja Vu". Bwuahahahahahaha! It won't matter after

12-20-2012, we will all get cycled back through the engine.

We have all done this before. There is no other explanation for a true deja vu experience.

We will all do it all again.

Reply to
Archimedes' Lever

th

uld

d

rue

Psychobabbling posters need not participate, if you want to post something intelligent, and you have sources to back up what you state, then do it.

Reply to
ssarbot

Fuck you, you little retarded piece of shit. NOBODY here needed your retarded little primer on metering devices or their effect on the circuit being read, nor their operation on certain devices. You did, you stupid f*ck?

No.. If YOU were to post something intelligent, we might not throw funny remarks at it. Since my response was to the other poster, you can f*ck off and then die, you stupid bastard.

You're an idiot. No source required for that one, you spew idiocy in here, and that is enough of a tell, dipshit.

So YOU can f*ck off telling ANYONE what they can or cannot post into whatever thread they want. You're a goddamned Usenet retard if you think you can dictate such stupid shit and get away with it.

Don't have a nice life. I hope you number among those that take the big unemployment hit. You sure deserve less.

Reply to
Spurious Response

You could reply to my query as to what you think a voltmeter and ammeter in series will measure.

Sylvia.

Reply to
Sylvia Else

No, he cannot. If he did, he would violate his own edict (twice). That is, if he even knows what an edict is.

Reply to
Do I really need to say?

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