The Deplorables

They couldn't even vote. What the f*ck are you talking about ?

Marxism is the philosophy, communism is a political system

il.com:

e dictatorships and saying how great we are. How about Switzerland, Uruguay , wherever Amsterdam is, and places that have jobs, like EVEN RUSSIA !

tter.

I knew they are stupid but never though of that. Thank you, I learned somet hing today, no matter how stoooopid it is.

Fromm what I've read and heard, turkeys are the absolutely cheapest things to raise. They require less mineral supplements, hey, it costs MONEY to rai se a cow. Well it is bigger, but per pound turkeys are cheaper than chicken . That is why I refuse to pay two bucks a pound for ground turkey.

They go on sale for what they're worth around Thanksgiving, but them then a nd freeze them. We got two freezers for shit like that. We save alot of mon ey on food.

Of course they couldn't vote; white males wouldn't let them. UK and US, women's vote. South Africa, everything. India, everything. In the US, the civil rights movement and gay rights. All were won by the repressed, with political action and shaming and lawsuits and some violence.

The US south would still have whites-only laundramats [1] if ML King and his allies hadn't revolted, and died, for equal rights.

[1] The signs said "Whites Only except Colored Maids in Uniform." I remember that.

--

John Larkin         Highland Technology, Inc 

lunatic fringe electronics

Because it's profitable.

Marx believed history was a class struggle, between capital and labour. It' s often a useful simplification.

Technically speaking, a liberal is somebody who believes in free trade. Whe n the term was invented to out-of-touch-with-reality right wingers - a clas s that seems to include Jim Thompson - believed in protectionism. Since Ame ricans know very little history, "liberal" in the US now means "somebody mo re left-wing than me". In Jim Thompson's case that's most of the country.

The idea of a class struggle between capital and labour is a basic tenet of Communism, but the communists inherited it from the broader socialist move ment, so it's not a reliable way of identifying communists (and never was - the original socialists threw out the proto-communists for being undemocra tic).

So Tom del Rosso doesn't know where that element of liberal philosophy come s from either. Engels and Kropotkin do seems to have been the first to use the term class struggle in the modern sense, and Marx did latch onto it.

That Karl Marx later became wrong-headedly enthusiastic about the leading r ole of an elite party in improving society - the communist error - doesn't actually invalidate the insight, and it is subordinate to the central idea that society is a cooperation within the whole population, rather than a de vice to make the rich richer.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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In fact it is a misleading formulation. Tom del Rosso doesn't seem to know that the Communists got that philosophical element from broader socialist t hought.

Tom del Rosso, obviously, but you didn't know enough to notice his error ei ther.

away.

They do. It's part of the same package. You raise more taxes from everybody to spend on making the poor a healthier, better educated and more producti ve work force, which eventually pays off for everybody. More of the extra t axes come from the well-off, because they've got more money - the poor don' t have enough to cover the cost of collection - but most of the long term b enefit ends up in the pockets of the well off because they get to hire more productive workers, and make money out of the extra production.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Initially, only property-owning males could vote - in the US this started out as only 6% of the population. The US liberalised this marginally faster than the UK where even the 1884 reform bill only allowed some 40% of the male population to vote.

In the UK there were places that had signs saying "no Irish", not that John Larkin was being specifically targeted.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 1:10:24 AM UTC+10, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wr ote:

te:

All governments redistribute - initially from the citizens being "protected " to the protection gang, aka army that's protecting them.

This does damage the people being protected, though not as much as an invas ion would. People more intelligent than Jame Arthur have worked out that th e idea can be generalised to cover other services that benefit society as a whole. Universal health care and universal education are examples that Jam es Arthur finds particularly damaging to the people who have to pay for the m, after they have been educated and before they get sick.

It's an interesting blind spot, but James Arthur is intellectually consiste nt - he does idolise the founding tax evaders who took the original thirtee n American states out from under the thumb of British tax collectors.

He's less well-informed about the Whiskey Rebellion, when some members of t he new colony objected to the tax they had to pay on the whiskey they were distilling.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

You gotta be kidding.

You mean gave them back, after they were taken away? What ingrates.

Actually, that is correct. Rights do not come from anything, you are born with them. People and organizations can only take them away.

I am a privileged White Man. Can the government give me the right to fly ? Nope. They can't turn me into a bird.

Really, now you put it that way I say you are right. You are born with rights and others take them away.

So it was your careless choice of ancestors that made you a bird-brain, rather than an inadequate education system that didn't teach anything like enough.

You are only born with rights if you are born into a society that thinks the new-born have rights. A couple of centuries ago, if you have been born to slave parents, you'd have been property.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

For another viewpoint, try Eric Foner's "Nothing But Freedom: Emancipation and Its Legacy" and (a bit longer and more detailed) "Forever Free: The Sory of Emancipation and Reconstruction".

( The pulp-and-text-challenged can find an AHTV (C-SPAN3) interview of Foner here: The Civil War: Politics of Reconstruction

)

One of Foner's key points is the conflict between the plantation owners' desperate need for cheap manpower and the ex-slaves' reluctance to work under the conditions the former slave-owners wanted: long hours of hard labor for little or no pay, and subject to the same kind of punishment they had experienced prior to the war.

Frank McKenney

--
  Socialism presumes that we already have most of the knowledge we need 
  to accomplish our national goals. Capitalism is based on the idea that 
  we live in a world of unfathomable complexity, ignorance, and peril; 
  and that we cannot possibly prevail over our difficulties without 
  constant efforts of initiative, sympathy, discovery, and love. One 
  system maintains that we can reliably predict and elicit the results 
  we demand. The other asserts that we must give long before we can know 
  what the universe will return. One is based on empirically calculable 
  human power; the other on optimism and faith. These are the essential 
  visions that compete in the world and determine our fate. 

              -- George Gilder / Wealth and Poverty, A New Edition

You win the prize for the day. You just proved Jim Thompson right in his post with the link to the IVIs, but I have doubts about the first "I", as I bet even more here do after this totally inane post.

Thanks -- I listened to the video. His was a pretty standard description of /what/ happened and /who/. Meriwether's was the first account (and a first-hand account at that) I'd seen of /why/ the Southerners acted as they did, from the Southern perspective.

Cheers, James Arthur

Huh, I don't know about domesticated turkeys. I saw this nature program about wild turkeys, and they came off as being fairly smart. (The males became a bit aggressive when in rut.)

George H.

[snip]

But "wild" turkeys are skinny, not much to eat ;-) ...Jim Thompson

--
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